TromboneChat

Not sure where this belongs but did anyone else hear some murmurs about Kanstul closing up shop?

Yuuuup.

Hope not.

But the business is tough and relatively unforgiving.

I haven't heard that! Seriously? Why on earth would they close up shop? Didn't they just release a new line of trumpets and make a showing at NAMM?

If they are closing down it must be because of a snap family decision and not a business one.

I know nothing about it, but sometimes the family isn't as interested when the founder is gone. That also happened to Lawson French horns when Walter Lawson died.

To bad if it is true ;-( I'm happy with the Kanstuls. The best modern horns I own are the 1555, 1606, 760, 1570 and the 1662. In hundred years they might be praised and missed just as the Williams horns are today.

/Tom

imsevimse wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:18 am To bad if it is true ;-( I'm happy with the Kanstuls. The best modern horns I own are the 1555, 1606, 760, 1570 and the 1662. In hundred years they might be praised and missed just as the Williams horns are today.

/Tom

I'm literally selling my 1606 to help pay for my wedding and now I'm not sure it's such a good idea... Had wanted to try out some of their large bores at some point too.

I have to say I've been puzzled by their marketing strategy; I've even discussed it with Jack directly. Most people in my part of the country have never even heard of them, much less know what a broad range they offer. Why were they not putting sections of player together to play their stuff in high def videos etc? Why is there a video floating around of Jack farting around on a contra instead of getting a real tuba player to do something with it? Then, when they /did/ get some players on the horns it was just noisy clips at NAMM...

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Man, I hope not. They make some excellent trombones.

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This sounds like a rumor at this point. Anyway to substantiate it?

norbie2018 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:43 am This sounds like a rumor at this point. Anyway to substantiate it?

I got it from a friend in the repair world who knew those affected. I've now seen it from another friend in the repair business but in another state. I came here to try and substantiate it.

Hey Sheriff, how does the 1606 compare to your 6?

I'll roll by the factory and take a look and reach out to some locals.

It's possible that they are planning to close the Anaheim plant and relocate to someplace where costs are lower, but that's just a wild guess.

JohnL wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:25 am I'll roll by the factory and take a look and reach out to some locals.

It's possible that they are planning to close the Anaheim plant and relocate to someplace where costs are lower, but that's just a wild guess.

The word I got was "about 40 employees were told they are being laid off including their warranty/repair department". You'd think warranty would stick around if they intended to retain a customer base etc. after a change of location.

Molefsky wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:39 am

JohnL wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:25 am I'll roll by the factory and take a look and reach out to some locals.

It's possible that they are planning to close the Anaheim plant and relocate to someplace where costs are lower, but that's just a wild guess.

The word I got was "about 40 employees were told they are being laid off including their warranty/repair department". You'd think warranty would stick around if they intended to retain a customer base etc. after a change of location.

That sounds like something to substantiate it. I never played a Kanstul but always wanted to try one of their large bore tenors. However, M&W and Edwards are about an hour from me, so when I buy another .547 trombone I have the privilege to have these makers so close.

Yeah, I liked that they'd recreate vintage horns and update them etc. I really wanted to try a slide tuning 8h or 88h (I forget their model number).

Sounds like you better do so soon. Hornguys would be one source.

I just sold my 1670D prototype a few months ago. Selling my 1606 right now. Just not in the market to buy right now. I was thinking next year...

Molefsky wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:05 am

norbie2018 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:43 am This sounds like a rumor at this point. Anyway to substantiate it?

Hey Sheriff, how does the 1606 compare to your 6?

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My 1606 is the prototype and the best example of a 1606 that I have ever played, and I've played several production models. It blows more open than my Williams 6 but does not have the character of sound that the 6 has. My 6 was made by Bob Williams, Earl's son.

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mrdeacon wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:15 am I haven't heard that! Seriously? Why on earth would they close up shop? Didn't they just release a new line of trumpets and make a showing at NAMM?

They weren't actually at NAMM:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/vie ... bd4cea2bfb

I rolled by the shop yesterday. Being a Saturday, they weren't open, but I did not see any outward signs of trouble. The Kanstul signage is still in place and there's no big "For Sale" sign out front. As I said earlier - I'll ask around and see what I can find out.

Oh really?? That's interesting they weren't at NAMM... Maybe not a sure sign that they've gone under but that's for sure a red flag to me. Considering they're right down the street and the amount of business they do in the DCI and education worlds that seems odd for them to miss it.

Only 1 corps using Kanstul at the moment, and none did for quite some time before that.

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:52 pm Oh really?? That's interesting they weren't at NAMM... Maybe not a sure sign that they've gone under but that's for sure a red flag to me. Considering they're right down the street and the amount of business they do in the DCI and education worlds that seems odd for them to miss it.

Or you may be reading too much in the murky tea leaves.

Perhaps Kanstul's projected return on the substantial investment (cost of exhibiting at NAMM) didn't justify the expense - especially considering the dealers (their target market at NAMM) could find Kanstul in their less hectic and quieter home a 10 minute drive away!

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:09 pm Only 1 corps using Kanstul at the moment, and none did for quite some time before that.

Well Kanstul fooled me with all the advertising they do!

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:52 pm Oh really?? That's interesting they weren't at NAMM... Maybe not a sure sign that they've gone under but that's for sure a red flag to me. Considering they're right down the street and the amount of business they do in the DCI and education worlds that seems odd for them to miss it.

NAMM is crazy expensive for exhibitors, and Kanstul isn't that big a company. I could see them deciding to spend the money elsewhere.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:09 pm Only 1 corps using Kanstul at the moment, and none did for quite some time before that.

Yeah, Jack was pretty down on how asian manufacturers were taking market share in the DCI world despite the supposed disparity in quality of product.

To be quite honest, those Asians horns were better. The Kanstul marching line is not great, especially for the price.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:31 pm To be quite honest, those Asians horns were better. The Kanstul marching line is not great, especially for the price.

Sound? Fit and finish?

Not especially in tune, ok build quality, about the same playability as the other makes. The Kanstul marching euphonium, for example, is probably about the 3rd or 4th best of the options available.

It's just not an area in which I have any interest. I knew some DCI guys that liked the Kanstul contras despite their apparent extra heft but that's second hand knowledge at best.

Is Kanstul really the only extant maker of tubas in the US?

I talked to a family member of a now-former Kanstul employee. There have been significant layoffs. Obviously, they didn't share their plans with those being laid off, but it looks like they will be closing the Anaheim plant in the near future. There are rumors that someone is buying the name, tooling, and equipment.

JohnL wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:31 am I talked to a family member of a now-former Kanstul employee. There have been significant layoffs. Obviously, they didn't share their plans with those being laid off, but it looks like they will be closing the Anaheim plant in the near future. There are rumors that someone is buying the name, tooling, and equipment.

This will be a sad ending - especially for many in Southern California who had long-standing relationships with the Kanstul company and the family.

It will be the conclusion of a long and wonderful tradition of high-quality brass instrument manufacturing in Southern California.

Wonder what will happen to the various outstanding Kanstul special orders?

Wow... I'm shocked. I hope that whoever buys the name, equipment and tooling makes horns that live up to the original brand.

I'm more curious as to what's going to happen to their custom/repair shop (or rather, the people in it).

Damn, this is a shame. I just started my fulltime job and was hoping to put $ aside for a new 760, as I had borrowed a friend's horn for a spell a while back and really loved the way it played.

This was posted on their Facebook page:

"Effective immediately, Kanstul Musical Instruments is putting a hold on new orders for instruments, parts and accessories. We are undergoing a transition that requires an indefinite halt in production.

In the meantime, the Kanstul family and team want to express our deep appreciation to our customers, business partners and friends for the business and incredible support we’ve received over the 38 years since Zig Kanstul founded the company.

We will update on any further developments.

Please direct any questions via email to [email protected]."

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:56 am I'm more curious as to what's going to happen to their custom/repair shop (or rather, the people in it).

It's a tough situation. It's not like there's another company around here they can move to.

The person whose relative I spoke with is interviewing out of the area.

I guess I was thinking along the lines of their forming their own small company for brass repair/custom work. But that would require some degree of capitalization and probably something of a leap of faith.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:45 am I guess I was thinking along the lines of their forming their own small company for brass repair/custom work. But that would require some degree of capitalization and probably something of a leap of faith.

That'd be a big leap and a lot of faith.

Yeah. The people around here (even the very highly skilled ones) who have tried that have either ended up working for some company (like Tuba Exchange) in one relationship or other, or working out of their homes. Otherwise, I've seen brass repair/custom shops come and go for the past 30 years. Kanstul is (should be, theoretically?) in a better location with a wider draw, but it seems pretty much impossible to sustain a repair/maintenance/custom approach without some sort of sales stream.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:58 amKanstul is (should be, theoretically?) in a better location with a wider draw, but it seems pretty much impossible to sustain a repair/maintenance/custom approach without some sort of sales stream.

The location is both a positive and a negative. Yes, there is more of a market here, but there are also people already established in that market.

Plus, it's California. Everything is more expensive, plus there's a lot of regulatory hoops through which one must jump. I expect Kanstul was grandfathered in for some of those hoops, but a new company would not be.

Sorry for the consecutive posts.

Forty years later, history is repeating itself. Olds ceased production on July 13, 1979. The liquidation auction was held on November 7, 1979.

No comment, just factual information.

Kanstul is selling off some equipment.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/kanstul1332/m. ... pg=&_from=

JohnL wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:00 pm No comment, just factual information.
Kanstul is selling off some equipment.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:46 pm

JohnL wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:00 pm No comment, just factual information.
Kanstul is selling off some equipment.

I'm thinking it might not be all bad. It doesn't look like they're selling off everything. In a doomsday scenario, I'd expect they'd either be selling off everything on eBay or holding onto it for a liquidation auction.

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While this is sad, this is simply a reflection of what the market can bear. It’s not like there’s a shortage of brass instrument manufacturers, and to be honest, the things Kanstul did were done just as well or better by other manufacturers. And even those were having problems, like Shires. How many more different trombones does the world really need? Especially when the demand is not nearly as high as it was in the days before other competition from other styles of music.

They never really seemed to fit any niche all that well. I haven’t heard of any major trombone players using their horns. Even Jupiter has outdone them on that front.

From the Winter 2019 newsletter from Horn Guys:
"The next era begins. We believe Kanstul Musical Instruments of Anaheim, CA may be inking a deal with a new benefactor this week. New manufacturing is on hold for the time being, but we have most models in stock."
So, perhaps there is something to be announced soon.

Can't say I've ever even seen a Kanstul horn.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:44 am Can't say I've ever even seen a Kanstul horn.

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You're in the eastern US, right? If so, they are not common in the east or the midwest, for that matter.

I'm glad I've got my 1606 prototype.

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Alan Kaplan plays his .500 bore 1602b and also the convertable .547 bore 1570b with removable Thayer f--valve. George Roberts did help with the single bass trombone that he played to the end. These are two giants for you that liked the Kanstul horns. In Symphony orchestras over here it is not easy for any maker to win shares. I think in many of our orchestras Bach and Conn are still popular and a few on Yamaha. It has been like this for many decades.

I have met a few professional bass trombone players who play old Holton horns. A couple on Bach and two who play Kanstuls. One is on the single 1670 and one is on the dependant 1662. I have met a few young college jazz players who play the 1555 and the 1606.

In Stockholm there are only two shops who sell brass instruments and one of them has been a Kanstul dealer. I think that's why they are spread here. I had not bought the first Kanstul if I had not play tested in that shop. The rest I ordered on Thomann. I can not see any Kanstul instruments on Thomann anymore so I guess they have interrupted the collaboration.

I had a gig today where I played my 1606. The leader of that band is also a tromboneplayer and also play the 1606. I think the ones who have never seen a Kanstul has missed a great opportunity to choose a different horn. Maybe jazz musicians are more interested to try new concepts. I hope the Kanstul company continue to deliver high quality horns when they open up again. I hope they do open up.

/Tom

Scuttlebutt today is that they have a buyer...