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Open Leadpipes
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:36 pm
by paulyg
Anybody know of leadpipes available that are more open than an Edwards T3? I'm hoping there are .547 pipes out there that fit the description, otherwise I might have to look at some bass slides.
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:10 pm
by mrdeacon
The T3 is super open. They might make a short pipe...
Sounds like you might want a bigger mouthpiece or a .547/.565 slide.
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:27 am
by whitbey
I was like you looking for a more open pipe several years ago. I ended up with a shorter more open pipe from Chuck M???? (recently closed shop, cannot remember name).
I still have the pipe in my drawer. It played well and was very open.
Later, my health and playing changed and I switched to a #1 sized pipe with a doubore slide.
Shorter pipes will give you a more open feel.
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:50 pm
by pompatus
I, somewhat, remember hearing stories of beastly bass trombonists playing with a venturi-less leadpipe (mouthpiece receiver only) for a very open and free-blowing horn. If I remember, correctly, Charlie Vernon played that way at one point?
Hickeys sells a collection of 3 Bach 50 leadpipes with clamp fitting that includes such a venturi-less receiver at the following link:
https://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/tro ... ovable.php
Hickeys also has just the single clamp-fit receiver for 42 or 50 model slides at the following link:
https://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/tro ... ovable.php
I would imagine a tech would be able to remove the clamp and mount the threaded collar of your choice, to fit your slide. Your tech might even be able to modify an existing leadpipe by removing everything past the mouthpiece receiver, if the need for a more free-blowing slide calls for such a thing.
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:27 pm
by harrisonreed
Vernon used to have NO leadpipe. There was a special CV mouthpiece that had no taper.
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:33 pm
by btone
The most open tenor leadpipe I know of is the Minick Open Legit (OL). Kanstul made a copy and with luck you should be able to find one. I bought an original from Minick about 1990 and I think it is more open than an Edwards or Shires #3 pipe. I used mine for several years and really liked it.
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:21 pm
by brassmedic
Just want to share a story here: Someone bought one of the leadpipes I make, and it happened to be the tightest pipe I make. Their comment was, "This is the most open leadpipe I have ever played."
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:27 pm
by paulyg
brassmedic wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:21 pm
Just want to share a story here: Someone bought one of the leadpipes I make, and it happened to be the tightest pipe I make. Their comment was, "This is the most open leadpipe I have ever played."
Haha! I've had the chance to try more pipes since I originally posted, and I don't think my issue with the T3 was related to it not being "open" enough.
Incidentally, I'm on your 42O pipe right now. It's working really well for me.
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:29 pm
by tbonesullivan
brassmedic wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:21 pm
Just want to share a story here: Someone bought one of the leadpipes I make, and it happened to be the tightest pipe I make. Their comment was, "This is the most open leadpipe I have ever played."
This is 100% why I try to avoid ever looking at specifications. Just because it's got the widest venturi doesn't mean it will 'FEEL' the most open.
For a lot of people, what they think is "stuffy" is actually poor resonance. Something is not working well in their setup, and they feel a resistance, and assume "well I just need to open this up and that will change"
The smallest point in most setups will be the throat of the mouthpiece. Brass instruments are resonators, not air cannons.
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:56 am
by Tbarh
The Brassark /Brassmedic "Conn 1919"pipe are more open than the Edwards No. 3, is it not?
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:28 am
by slipmo
Tbarh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:56 am
The Brassark /Brassmedic "Conn 1919"pipe are more open than the Edwards No. 3, is it not?
Yes, this is our most open feeling tenor pipe, but I also find it quite steerable and focused. This is the pipe I use in my own instrument FWIW
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:58 pm
by Kbiggs
tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:29 pm
Brass instruments are resonators, not air cannons.
This deserves a gold medal for Pedagogical Pithiness.
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:27 am
by tombone21
Tbarh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:56 am
The Brassark /Brassmedic "Conn 1919"pipe are more open than the Edwards No. 3, is it not?
I adore this leadpipe, it has made all the difference for me. I switched from a Shires 3GS (gold, short) which I believe is the most open pipe they make. The Brassark is much more open and makes a much better sound, while still remaining, yes, steerable is a great word for it.
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:47 am
by Tbarh
slipmo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:28 am
Tbarh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:56 am
The Brassark /Brassmedic "Conn 1919"pipe are more open than the Edwards No. 3, is it not?
Yes, this is our most open feeling tenor pipe, but I also find it quite steerable and focused. This is the pipe I use in my own instrument FWIW
I am waiting for a 8H-SP Kanstul pipe to arrove in the mail.... How does that compare to the Brassark Conn pipes?
Trond
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:52 pm
by slipmo
Since there is a similar thread going on in the classified section, I'll copy/paste some of my reply from that thread.
Kanstul pipes were roughly measured and while I think they more or less give a representation, they tend to be their own thing and not exactly a replica to the original source material (which is fine) It's good to consider these pipes as a "re-imagining" of the pipe on which it is modeled.
The 1919 8H I think is a very special pipe and you rarely see them second hand. We haven't made nearly as many as other pipes (some players have preconceived ideas of what red brass does on a leadpipe and don't consider this one), the people that do have them rarely sell them secondhand. Granted, I wouldn't say this is a leadpipe for everyone... but the combination of the seamed red brass and the unique taper of this pipe gives a feel that is very open... a transparent sound with clarity while retaining some warmth and body. Superb projection at loud dynamics, intimacy and color at soft dynamics. Personally I love the way this pipe responds, which is why I use one, it gives me incredible feedback on my chops and lets me find the center of notes without too much resistance but just enough to not get lost in the openness. The more efficient I am with it, the more it gives back to me. I feel like I can then get to the center core of my sound concept without fighting for it... I use this pipe on my 1930s Conn... It does behave differently in other style trombones but I find the general feel remains consistent with subtle nuanced changes across brands. YMMV
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:07 am
by Tbarh
slipmo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:52 pm
Since there is a similar thread going on in the classified section, I'll copy/paste some of my reply from that thread.
Kanstul pipes were roughly measured and while I think they more or less give a representation, they tend to be their own thing and not exactly a replica to the original source material (which is fine) It's good to consider these pipes as a "re-imagining" of the pipe on which it is modeled.
The 1919 8H I think is a very special pipe and you rarely see them second hand. We haven't made nearly as many as other pipes (some players have preconceived ideas of what red brass does on a leadpipe and don't consider this one), the people that do have them rarely sell them secondhand. Granted, I wouldn't say this is a leadpipe for everyone... but the combination of the seamed red brass and the unique taper of this pipe gives a feel that is very open... a transparent sound with clarity while retaining some warmth and body. Superb projection at loud dynamics, intimacy and color at soft dynamics. Personally I love the way this pipe responds, which is why I use one, it gives me incredible feedback on my chops and lets me find the center of notes without too much resistance but just enough to not get lost in the openness. The more efficient I am with it, the more it gives back to me. I feel like I can then get to the center core of my sound concept without fighting for it... I use this pipe on my 1930s Conn... It does behave differently in other style trombones but I find the general feel remains consistent with subtle nuanced changes across brands. YMMV
Re: Open Leadpipes
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:59 pm
by tbonesullivan
slipmo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:52 pmKanstul pipes were roughly measured and while I think they more or less give a representation, they tend to be their own thing and not exactly a replica to the original source material (which is fine) It's good to consider these pipes as a "re-imagining" of the pipe on which it is modeled.
They definitely made some nice pipes, though they do seem to vary a bit over the years.
These are three pairs of Kanstul .547 pipes from Left to right: BB ML and MO. The left in each pair are probably at least 5 years older than the pair on the right. Only the BB pipes are the same length, and the younger one has a bit of a "ring" around it about 3/4 inch above the bottom. From the outside at least, the venturi look to be about the same in each pair.
