TromboneChat

Their website is still up but it doesn’t look very functional.

Web sites get lost. I would call Chuck and see if he is there. (718) 381-4724

He closed down a while back. There was a campaign to help him pay back taxes but it failed.

Yes, sadly, it is gone.
The enormous cost of moving the business from Manhattan to a less convenient location in Brooklyn after the rent went through the roof at his old location of 30+ years was just too much; the tax issue grew out of that. Chuck wanted to continue to do everything in-house as he had always done, such as lacquering and plating, and it is simply a non-starter to find a space that could accommodate that in Manhattan in today's real estate market.

It's pretty well impossible to maintain a small business with small to no profit margins in New York nowadays. Being a master craftsman isn't good enough on it's own in today's world. Chuck wasn't the internet savvy, social media type, and I think that didn't help him when he had to move to a less accessible location. He was simply a master craftsman in the old world model. New York isn't a friendly place anymore for that model. It's even becoming difficult to find gas stations or auto mechanics anywhere near Manhattan at this point. And besides, all of those newly minted Amazon tech types moving in next year can just afford to buy a new car the minute the old one breaks down for the first time anyway.

Some may call it progress. Others call it the triumph of the oligarchs and the destruction of the middle class. New York sold its soul out in the '90's and it hasn't looked back.

I call it a feature of large metropolitan areas, and particularly New York (and for a number of reasons in this case, stretching back into distant memory).

I'd also guess that almost none of those new Amazon techs in NY will even have a car (Why? How? In Manhattan?). Even in Seattle I suspect most Amazon people don't drive to work. My son drives to a parking lot a couple of miles from his Bellevue house, and then takes the Amazon shuttle back and forth. And he's not a "city type" (far from it).

But most people who WANT to live in these large metro areas don't even WANT a car and all the hassle and added expense it brings. Have you actually tried driving in commuting-time traffic in places like LA, Seattle, or NY? (Or even non-commuting traffic?) Those folks want to live in small apartments in the big city and take public/mass transportation -- or maybe Uber. It's exciting.

I was being a bit snarky about the Amazon employees. Yes, they will undoubtedly live in Long Island City, or in the new megalopolis being constructed on the West Side of Manhattan (ironically, more or less the neighborhood Chuck was forced out of) that is conveniently located on the newly extended 7 train that will can take them directly to Long Island City. And I'll bet that it will be the most reliable line in the otherwise badly deteriorating system, by some amazing coincidence. The State and the City will make damn sure of that, even at the expense of other subway lines. Those oligarchs want the services, but they sure don't want to pay.

There is still a call for auto mechanics and cars in Manhattan, there are many people of lesser and greater means that want or need to drive still living in various pockets in Manhattan that the Real Estate interests haven't figured out how to evict yet (Low income housing projects, middle income Mitchell- Lama housing. Some of it is even on prime waterfront acreage, you just know they're just itching to get those people out).

My friend is the last mechanic in Manhattan below 96th street. He is only still there because he had the good sense to buy the building back in the early '90's. He has more work than he can handle. He could sell the building and retire a multi-millionaire tomorrow if he wanted to from the proceeds, but he still loves what he does and won't quit yet. He figures the building won't lose value. and he's right. But once he's gone, there will be no mechanics left in Manhattan to speak of.

Call them oligarchs if you want, but that characterization seems misplaced in this instance. There were two sides to that deal and the governments of NY State and the City of New York were not only required to approve it but to participate in its creation and details. They're the ones representing the interests of the residents and businesses of the City and State. They worked hard to pay more than other governmental competitors in order to win that "prize". The so-called oligarchs aren't pretending to do that. Apparently the governments are willing (and anxious) to pay. So I wonder who that actually makes the "oligarchs"?

Well-paid tech workers. The new yuppies.

An article on changing neighbourhoods in Seattle talked about former biker bars being taken over by Amazon employees in chinos and golf shirts.

Yes, well, I'm sure we all mourn the disappearance of a plethora of biker bars and the "neighbourhoods" they occupied. I actually found Seattle -- as a city, which I spurn in general -- to be quite nice. Modulo the traffic, of course. The area is also a very amusing (I use that term broadly here) mixture (perhaps co-existence is better) of "cultures" (in more than one sense). Really a very interesting area with opportunities for all sorts of people.

I'm trying to visualize how those bikers got driven out by the chino-wearing neo-yuppies (however terrifying they may seem). ... Nope, can't quite see it. Possibly the bikers were just so appalled that they were repulsed and simply fled. I don't recall seeing many while there. Perhaps they all retreated to Tacoma or Portland?

.

Here in Chicago it seems like most of the repair techs are either way out by O'hare or out pass Midway. There are probably zoning and rent issues too but I have a feeling that it's mostly due to a good chunk of their business coming from the suburbs.

In todays age of social media, theres really little need to pay exorbitant rents to be in prime locations. I do work mainly out of my house, and keep it mostly if not all off the books. Keeps the maximum amount in my pocket, and allows me to charge less.

You'd be hard pressed to find a more anti-government guy than I am, but in today's age of social media I don't think I'd post an apparent admission of tax fraud on a public forum.

Jgittleson wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:29 am In todays age of social media, theres really little need to pay exorbitant rents to be in prime locations. I do work mainly out of my house, and keep it mostly if not all off the books. Keeps the maximum amount in my pocket, and allows me to charge less.

Wow

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:49 am You'd be hard pressed to find a more anti-government guy than I am, but in today's age of social media I don't think I'd post an apparent admission of tax fraud on a public forum.

You guys worry too much. I didnt even say what business i do it for, and anyone would be hard pressed to prove it in the real world. Uncle Sam has bigger fish to fry, like the president

Jgittleson wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:27 am

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:49 am You'd be hard pressed to find a more anti-government guy than I am, but in today's age of social media I don't think I'd post an apparent admission of tax fraud on a public forum.

You guys worry too much. I didnt even say what business i do it for, and anyone would be hard pressed to prove it in the real world. Uncle Sam has bigger fish to fry, like the president

Sort of insensitive and still dumb, considering what this entire thread is about -- namely, unpaid income taxes for brass repair and a nice couple's lives turned upside down.

Bigger fish to fry? For the tax people? Probably not.

Good job

So....

Is Brass Lab still in existence? Does anyone know?...

No, it's gone. This was answered in almost the first post.

He has a facebook page. You can attempt to get a one off job done by him at his house, but his shop (and most tooling) is gone. They might take on an easy job. But from the little traffic I can see on the Facebook page, they really aren't doing any of the work he was so well known for.

Jgittleson wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:29 am In todays age of social media, theres really little need to pay exorbitant rents to be in prime locations. I do work mainly out of my house, and keep it mostly if not all off the books. Keeps the maximum amount in my pocket, and allows me to charge less.

Tax evasion issues aside, ( BTW, I pay my share. There's no free lunch. Those roads won't pave themselves, I like my populace educated, and somebody's gotta pay for it, and since you won't, I will...You're welcome) maybe your business has the luxury of being off the beaten path. But last I heard, if you want your instrument repaired, you need to get it to the physical location. Assuming you don't want it to take the extra time to ship it back and forth, as most professional musicians would need, location still matters.

There are still some things in life the internet and an app on your phone can't solve.

In the 30 years I know them, Osmun Brass has moved further and further out of Boston. They are now in Acton, nearly an hour out of town. But they are still the go-to guys for a lot of BSO brass musicians.

Too bad one of the Sam Ash stores couldn't take Chuck on as their repair tech.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:05 am In the 30 years I know them, Osmun Brass has moved further and further out of Boston. They are now in Acton, nearly an hour out of town. But they are still the go-to guys for a lot of BSO brass musicians.

Too bad one of the Sam Ash stores couldn't take Chuck on as their repair tech.

I think that's the model now. A stand alone repair tech is just not a viable business in expensive real estate markets. Both Josh Landress and Dillon Music have other products/services that they offer to supplement the repair part of the business. And Dillon, like Osmun, is located well outside of New York City, but still accessible by mass transit. It just takes longer to get there.

It's really a shame Sam Ash didn't hire Chuck. I know he approached them. Their's and our loss.

Jgittleson wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:27 am You guys worry too much. I didnt even say what business i do it for, and anyone would be hard pressed to prove it in the real world. Uncle Sam has bigger fish to fry, like the president

Yeah, you're real smart. It took me about 3 minutes to get your full name, location, business, phone number, and those nice selfies of you suitable for wanted posters. I'll refrain from posting that here. Like you said yourself: social media -- live by it; die by it.

You don't have to worry directly about Uncle Sam too much (I THINK they're not doing arbitrary sweeps of forum sites, but it wouldn't be difficult). But how many people do you suppose have read this and MAYBE thought to themselves "Hmmm. Now what about that IRS Whistleblower Informant Award (IRS 7623(a))?" Yeah, the IRS might or might not decide to audit you. But that's SO easy for them to do -- you know it's all "computerized now", right? It doesn't sound like you've ever been through one or you'd know what they can prove. And the Feds aren't even the ones you really need to worry about.

Isn't tax problems a big part of what killed Brass Lab?

Keep being slick.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:35 am

Jgittleson wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:27 am You guys worry too much. I didnt even say what business i do it for, and anyone would be hard pressed to prove it in the real world. Uncle Sam has bigger fish to fry, like the president

Yeah, you're real smart. It took me about 3 minutes to get your full name, location, business, phone number, and those nice selfies of you suitable for wanted posters. I'll refrain from posting that here. Like you said yourself: social media -- live by it; die by it.

You don't have to worry directly about Uncle Sam too much (I THINK they're not doing arbitrary sweeps of forum sites, but it wouldn't be difficult). But how many people do you suppose have read this and MAYBE thought to themselves "Hmmm. Now what about that IRS Whistleblower Informant Award (IRS 7623(a))?" Yeah, the IRS might or might not decide to audit you. But that's SO easy for them to do -- you know it's all "computerized now", right? It doesn't sound like you've ever been through one or you'd know what they can prove. And the Feds aren't even the ones you really need to worry about.

Isn't tax problems a big part of what killed Brass Lab?

Keep being slick.

Lol! While im flattered you took enough interest to internet stalk me, I'm sure your convinced its horns or motorcycles, both of which are all on the books. I've had a business audited twice, and neither time did i owe anything additional. Its all a dumb game. The better your accountants, the less you pay.

Yeah, but now you've actually confessed to fraud. As they say in the South, that might could matter. I'd wish you luck, but I really don't wish luck to tax cheats.

So would it be okay with you for me or someone else reading this to contact the IRS about their Whistleblower program? I mean, normally I wouldn't do that, but ...

Easy, guys... (please tone it down)

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:04 am Yeah, but now you've actually confessed to fraud. As they say in the South, that might could matter. I'd wish you luck, but I really don't wish luck to tax cheats.

So would it be okay with you for me or someone else reading this to contact the IRS about their Whistleblower program? I mean, normally I wouldn't do that, but ...

Lol. And you'd have to make the massive assumption everything everyone writes in a public forum is truthful or at least everything i write is truthful ( hint: I can guarantee its not). Let me guess, Trump supporter?

I don't know why i bother on here anymore.

And thanks for the threat, thats cool.

Can we PLEASE get back to talking about the Brass Lab?

I don't care if Gittleson is reporting all his income from repairs or not.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:35 am Can we PLEASE get back to talking about the Brass Lab?

I don't care if Gittleson is reporting all his income from repairs or not.

Sorry Bruce, apparently its me. Any time i try to contribute this is how it ends up- ill keep out of it since its rude to the OP.

I do care, but I'm fine with him now. Apparently his original confession was in error.

That escalated quickly.

My uncle, a farmer, once told me there were three things you had to do in business: feed your family, pay your taxes and pay down your loan, and, in any given year, you could do two of those things.

For the BL, the cost of doing business likely made doing business impossible.

Bach5G wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:02 pm That escalated quickly.

My uncle, a farmer, once told me there were three things you had to do in business: feed your family, pay your taxes and pay down your loan, and, in any given year, you could do two of those things.

For the BL, the cost of doing business likely made doing business impossible.

Truer words were never spoken!

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:35 am Can we PLEASE get back to talking about the Brass Lab?

I don't care if Gittleson is reporting all his income from repairs or not.

Isn't the topic closed yet?

Q: Is the Brass Lab gone?
A: Yes

or

Q: Is the Brass Lab gone forever?
A: Ask Prof. Trelawney, because no one else can answer that.

"Next slide!"

Traffic in metro areas, and people without cars, was briefly mentioned.

But it might be worth mentioning again anyway. If you have a car, you can make one trip to a bricks and mortar store, shopping center, mall, etc. and bring back an assortment of items.

But that's not how we shop anymore. We go online to Amazon or an assortment of other retailers, and 12 trucks enter the neighborhood to deliver. And all the neighbors do the same. This is what has really snarled urban traffic and urban parking, and there's no obvious solution.

timothy42b wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:24 pm Traffic in metro areas, and people without cars, was briefly mentioned.

But it might be worth mentioning again anyway. If you have a car, you can make one trip to a bricks and mortar store, shopping center, mall, etc. and bring back an assortment of items.

But that's not how we shop anymore. We go online to Amazon or an assortment of other retailers, and 12 trucks enter the neighborhood to deliver. And all the neighbors do the same. This is what has really snarled urban traffic and urban parking, and there's no obvious solution.

Large delivery drones are an obvious solution

Jgittleson wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:27 am

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:49 am You'd be hard pressed to find a more anti-government guy than I am, but in today's age of social media I don't think I'd post an apparent admission of tax fraud on a public forum.

You guys worry too much. I didnt even say what business i do it for, and anyone would be hard pressed to prove it in the real world. Uncle Sam has bigger fish to fry, like the president

If you want it to be difficult to prove, you might want to tell your customers and the business that you do it for not to thank you or brag about the work you've done for them on Facebook, since several have already done so.

sungfw wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:36 pm

Jgittleson wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:27 am You guys worry too much. I didnt even say what business i do it for, and anyone would be hard pressed to prove it in the real world. Uncle Sam has bigger fish to fry, like the president

If you want it to be difficult to prove, you might want to tell your customers and the business that you do it for not to thank you or brag about the work you've done for them on Facebook, since several have already done so.

Ugh. Like i said earlier, i am not talking about horn work, especially since I spend more in prototypes alone than i make

Ya know, the funny part is i really wrote that because I figured it'd get someone twisted up and annoyed, but even i am in awe of how many malicious ppl are out there. From the mild denegration, to outright threats to report me, it's freakin comical!

And the funniest part is over the years I've learned that most of the time when your small business taxes are done properly, and you take every deduction you are legally in title, the tax rate can be extremely low, if not ending up being Zero when everything is tallied. Thats how large businesses can end up with comically low tax rates.

In nyc the killers are brick and mortor expenses (rent, property taxes, insurance, comp, etc). You'd have to charge triple what people charge elsewhere to generate the same net revenue, which shrinks the pool of customers dramatically. For people in areas with cheap property taxes, just think about this. There's areas in the suburbs here where a nice home (lets call it upper middle class) the property taxes alone are over $40,000, and the average is around 15k. A family of four needs a 200-250k gross annual income just to not be swamped it debt here.

Jgittleson wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:08 am And the funniest part is over the years I've learned that most of the time when your small business taxes are done properly, and you take every deduction you are legally in title , the tax rate can be extremely low, if not ending up being Zero when everything is tallied. Thats how large businesses can end up with comically low tax rates.

(I edited this post to highlight something in the quote)

So, you didn't actually learn that though, since you have to actually do your business taxes properly...and you don't?

I'm confooowsed!

All jokes aside, what kind of image are you going for with these ludicrous posts? You keep digging a deeper hole. How would you like the average reader here to perceive you? And before you get all mad and huffy, remember that it was you who started talking about not reporting taxes on a thread that is supposed to be about the Brass Lab, which closed because of unpaid taxes. Chuck is a nice guy. The stuff you're talking about is not.

“Ya know, the funny part is i really wrote that because I figured it'd get someone twisted up and annoyed...”

-sigh-

Jgittleson wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:08 am
Ya know, the funny part is i really wrote that because I figured it'd get someone twisted up and annoyed, but even i am in awe of how many malicious ppl are out there. From the mild denegration, to outright threats to report me, it's freakin comical!

Horse feathers.

Chuck is an incredible person and repairman. I used to go to his original location in Chelsea. Tuesday mornings, 7AM. Was the only time he did walk in appointments. Fixed some crazy big projects for me and always gave me affordable prices because I was a young kid still in college. The sweetest.

(I do regret how he convinced me to sell my Conn bass trumpet I got for free. He said the work done would be worth more than the instrument. Considering they sell for $2000+ these days I wish I kept it and didn’t just sell it for $500...needed a lot of dent work...anyway!)

I would also go to his last location in the McKibbin Lofts in East Williamsburg off the L train. It is a space filled with artisans who do work with wood, metal, glass, and more. Also a place where jazz musicians lived in lofts and played shows ala SoHo in the 80s. That space was amazing and I preferred it to the original location.

A lot of people would go get their horns tweaked in Chelsea, but he would repair literally anything made of brass- light fixtures, fans, 5 feet tall brass nutcracker soldiers commissioned by somebody I saw one time.

But unfortunately, he didn’t sell horns or a variety of accessories as someone else mentioned, which definitely helps with the overhead.

Secondly, his clientele was mostly classical musicians...and when your instrument breaks before your performance at Lincoln Center, well it’s just easier to take the A train two stops to 36th st to see Landress than 45 minutes to Brooklyn.

Not helped by the fact that when BrassLab was having financial problems it seemed like most musicians not in the classical scene (who essentially all live in Harlem/Uptown or Brooklyn) went to Josh Landress and his old apprentice Scott Sweeney at Sam Ash as they fostered better relations with younger players, go to check out our shows, and even played in bands with the same horn players that would go for repairs. Also you didn’t have to schedule projects in advance or walk in on Tuesday morning.

Sometimes the logistics made no sense to me, as some musicians could go three stops on the train and have the greatest technician repair their instruments without going into Manhattan...but by then BrassLab relocation wasn’t well publicized unless you already knew Chuck...I would do my best to spread the word about his new McKibbin Loft location.

And lastly, that neighborhood has BLOWN UP. I actually lived a 10 min walk from the last location in 2012 and had to move out because my apartment was not rent stablized and the landlord wanted to raise the rent $800/month!!! Now it’s about $2700/month for a dilapidated 1BDRM...

NYC is always changing and I highly recommend J. Landress brass for work in NYC or sending a horn in. My Conn Bell was crushed in the overhead of a plane this past weekend and he fixed it in 15 mins, looks brand new. They’ve really filled a void and while it’s not easy to run a brass shop they are doing well in Midtown and have become a real center of community for all brass musicians in all styles.

Sadly, BrassLab is gone, but not forgotten. Chuck is one of the best in the biz and his legacy is scattered all over NYC in various modded horns, Leadpipes, counterweights, and mouthpiece mods. A lot of aspiring and current repair people could learn a lot from studying his work. Thank you for indulging me...fond memories of NYC in the past. Happy Holidays everyone!

When I was still a freshmen at Crane in spring of '88 Chuck did an open wrap on my 42 that transformed the horn and I was hooked forever. I did business with Chuck via UPS for decades and only actually went to the shop in person as he was winding down in Manhattan ... the loft in Brooklyn was an awesome space but difficult to get to as a Long Island dweller. Chuck's prices were always outrageously low and the work was second to none, even with the quirky hand engraved Brasslab 'logo'. I sold that 42 15 years ago and would love to find it again.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:24 pm Yes, well, I'm sure we all mourn the disappearance of a plethora of biker bars and the "neighbourhoods" they occupied. I actually found Seattle -- as a city, which I spurn in general -- to be quite nice. Modulo the traffic, of course. The area is also a very amusing (I use that term broadly here) mixture (perhaps co-existence is better) of "cultures" (in more than one sense). Really a very interesting area with opportunities for all sorts of people.

I'm trying to visualize how those bikers got driven out by the chino-wearing neo-yuppies (however terrifying they may seem). ... Nope, can't quite see it. Possibly the bikers were just so appalled that they were repulsed and simply fled. I don't recall seeing many while there. Perhaps they all retreated to Tacoma or Portland?

Lived in Seattle all of my 57 years. It has been ruined by the Amazons, Microsofts, Googles and the like. It is has become a very cold and dangerous place to live.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:08 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:35 am Can we PLEASE get back to talking about the Brass Lab?

I don't care if Gittleson is reporting all his income from repairs or not.

Isn't the topic closed yet?

Q: Is the Brass Lab gone?
A: Yes

or

Q: Is the Brass Lab gone forever?
A: Ask Prof. Trelawney, because no one else can answer that.

"Next slide!"

Agreed. This topic has been suitable only for "tangents" for quite some time.

.

Schlitz wrote: ↑Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:18 pm

Dude, have you turned in your grades, and made sure your adjuncts are done?

Why yes, I have.

Have you gotten all the pizzas delivered on time, and made sure to include the little sachets of red pepper flakes?



(Edit: For the implication-challenged, the above contrasts the job of a college faculty member with that of a pizza delivery driver.)