TromboneChat

I have recently begun playing a Shires large bore tenor I pieced together. Here are the specs:
Slide: T47GLW
Bell: 1RT7
F-attachment: Tru-bore valve
Tuning slide: TY

I’m currently using a 2.5 leadpipe. I’m playing on a Doug Elliot LT series 103 rim, G cup, G8 shank.

This is the first Shires I’ve owned or played for any significant period of time. Currently, it seems to be fairly sharp. I have to pull the main tuning slide out 1-1/2” to 1-3/4” to tune Bb2 (2nd line) & Bb3 (top of staff). And even then, those two partials aren’t exactly an octave without lipping down (or moving hand slide) for Bb3. D4 and F4 above are really sharp (15-20 cents) and Bb4 and C5 are almost in short 2nd. In general slide positions have to be long: F#4 is at the bell and anything in 4th is at what I would call 4-1/2.

I’m a long time Bach player. For comparison my tuning slide is usually out around 3/4” on my 42AF, 1” on my 42BOF, and 1/2” on my 16M. I usually tune to play off the bumpers, but with the Shires, I never feel like I’m in 1st.

Is this a quirk of Shires’ standard (narrow) slides? I know Shires slides are shorter relative to Bach. Could it be that I just need to get used to the horn?

I’ve tried different leadpipes (Shires 1.5L & 2N and Bach stock) and other mouthpiece combinations (DE F & F+ cups). I have an H cup I could also try. I’ve never had a horn be this sharp. It’s frustrating, because it’s such a great playing trombone—so much more nimble, with an easier high range, than my Bach 42s.

I welcome any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks!

Tuning variations like that are not uncommon between horns, it's just something you have to get used to, I think. It's very dependent on the way the instrument is designed. I guess it would be better for the horn to be sharp than flat, you can always put the slide or tuning slide out, but if it's flat you start having problems.

I had similar issues getting used to the Yamaha 354 I bought a year ago after having daily-driven my Edwards T396A for so many years. The Edwards is similar to what your saying where the D4 and F4 are VERY sharp (I play with my slide off of the bumpers in 1st by about 1/2 inch or more). The D4 specifically is weird because it's normally flat on other horns, but it's designed to be sharp on that horn to allow the high D (D5) to be in tune in first position, instead of unusably flat. I would guess that Shires designs it to be that way too.

My Yamaha 354 D4 is flat, and it caught me off guard while trying to tune unison D's in big band, because I was used to playing off the bumper for that note.

The Yamaha 671 alto that the university owns has a serious issue with being flat in first position on some notes, with the tuning slide pushed all the way in and the slide all the way in. That is way more frustrating than being sharp, because there's no real way to compensate for it.

Variation of 15-20 cents I wouldn't be personally worried about, it also be your approach to playing it or the way you're hearing the pitches. I know I tend to play sharp if anything, and if you're like me and spend a LOT of time playing in ensembles, you know how ensembles tend to climb sharp.

Everything sealing properly? Usually that would cause you to go flat and not sharp but there are so many interactions between your lips and the audience that its conceivable.

I don't recall having any intonation problems with my narrow Shires slide (T47LW, incidentally I'd love to try a T47GLW). BUT I also play with my tuning slide almost all the way in or all the way in. So its hard to detect how afar out I am from one day to the next because I mostly just go for how it compares with drones or with other people. And it changes from the start of when I play to the end of when I play, especially if the temperature isn't super consistent.

I'd suggest trying to push it in and play with drones for a few days and see how that works for you. Part of the reason why you like the way the Shires sounds s because of its intonation tendencies. Thee isn't a 'solution' per se, only a tradeoffs!

I believe I read somewhere that Steve purposely builds his horns with the D4 sharp so that the D5 is more in tune. Not sure as to why, 'cause I think you'd be playing the D4 a lot more often than the D5. And the F4 is usually sharp, I believe, on most horns. I would chalk all that you're experiencing up to the fact that you're now on a new horn and need to learn its idiosyncrasies. If you like the way the horn plays, give it some time and work with it.