Arranging Some Familiar Tunes

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:08 am

I started a thread on "licks" on another board, but thought this would be the place to show/tell/discuss my efforts at arranging some familiar tunes.

My project this winter is to arrange some doo-wop and other classic, familiar and fun tunes. Here is an effort that is a work-in-progress on a favorite song often done in doo-wop, Blue Moon:

I use Fidelity Song Writer to open up a lead sheet. Then I make each line with two staves. The bottom is for the original melody and chords to use as a reference. The top is for my own melodic enhancement.

Notice that I am keeping it simple. I found out the hard way that I can write something very difficult for myself that becomes problematic to perform in a series with other difficult things. So I'll leave the difficult stuff for practice and keep the performance stuff a lot easier.

I use a BiaB accompaniment I get from the BiaB Yahoo Group and either use it as is or modify it to suit. Naturally, I mute out the melody and/or soloist and oftentimes I'll modify the chords as well.

I like to run through the chorus twice and then out. That gives about a 2-minute performance, which I think is plenty of time to say what I want to say.

The above arrangement is played with a bucket mute through the first pass. I haven't worked out the second pass yet.

I think this exercise is good for developing an ear and learning. My notation isn't the best, so I use the composition I came up with as a guide.

Feel free to offer suggestions, etc and/or to share your own creations.

When I play through this, I get a feeling of laid-back jazz and I kinda like some of the melody tweaks I came up with. Perhaps as I go along with this project, I'll get some nice licks that I could use elsewhere.

OBTW: I use straight lines going into and out of notes to indicate slide pushes. I'll use a "V" in-between notes to indicate a 1/2 tone dip. The classic "turn" symbol is used to indicate a jazz turn; which might actually be called a "doit".

...Geezer

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:13 am

Lol. No responses. Pros - if they are worth their honk - are probably too busy. Amateur bass trombone players probably find the arrangement above way too high, while amateur tenor trombone players probably find the arrangement above way too much in their awkward zone. I played it this morning with my Christmas present - a 1990's Conn 88H tenor/bass on a Bach 5G mpc and it went very well.

As I go along, I keep in mind a couple things:

1) I'm building a rep I can perform for friends and family, should the opportunity arise

2) I don't want to try blowing my brains out on every arrangement at the very, very top of my ability. So the goal is to keep all couple dozen tunes well within myself and playable one-after-the-other; in concert fashion, if you will.

Undeterred, I arranged a very popular song by Carole King, "You've Got A Friend" - with a modified BiaB arrangement I picked from the Yahoo BiaB Group. Here it is:

You might notice that I snuck in a few bars of "Don't Worry Be Happy" before the end. It could easily be played up an octave.

All of the arrangements I have done and will do could easily be re-written in terms of complexity and range in the year(s) to come.

It's a great winter project. You ought to try it! Really, there is no excuse not to, what with basic BiaB arrangements out there to start with. One caveat on that, though. Verify the melody line you see in BiaB arrangements. The arrangers very often have modified it. I like to start with the pristine original, as much as possible.

...Geezer

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:08 pm

The reason for little response is probably because yesterday was a very quiet day for the forum. Or it may be that most of us have not gone to the extent of writing down our own interpretations of tunes. I think the word is 'interpretations' and not 'arrangements'.

As you know, I use Band-in-a-Box lead sheets for playing out (trombone and a rhythm section, or even for my Dixieland group) and for the first stages of creating a big band arrangements. However, when I am playing the melody as the only front-line instrument, I just use the straight lead sheet more or less as published and I add my own interpretations/enhancements and whole-chorus improvisations as I go along. I always give the same straight lead sheet to the rhythm section (in treble clef) and they make up their own parts. I usually play a number of choruses, with an enhanced melody to start and end and improvised choruses between.

Using straight lead sheets is the way that everyone I know plays in jazz groups and always has - unless we have a proper arranged and harmonised arrangement. If I am the one doing this kind of arrangement, I use the Band-in-the-Box harmonies because it is so much faster than working out the harmonies from first principles. Band-in-a-Box harmonies are very comprehensive and very good. I would then drop the Band-in-a-Box file into Sibelius or Overture 4 to make it possible to print out all the parts properly. Band-in-a-Box notation is not good enough for this process.

Another good fun way I use Band-in-a-Box is for two-trombone groups (Kai & JJ style) and I put the second part on the Soloist track. Great for practicing and these parts can be used for playing out with just a few added handwritten notations. I have quite a few of these.

Now, can I lean on your expertise and ask you exactly how you are posting your music sheets on this forum? Since the Gallery stopped accepting new PDFs, photos etc., I have not worked out a satisfactory method of doing this. Or perhaps you can point to a topic where this has been explained. Thanks.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:55 pm

Quote from: Graham Martin on Dec 25, 2016, 03:08PMThe reason for little response is probably because yesterday was a very quiet day for the forum. Or it may be that most of us have not gone to the extent of writing down our own interpretations of tunes. I think the word is 'interpretations' and not 'arrangements'.

As you know, I use Band-in-a-Box lead sheets for playing out (trombone and a rhythm section, or even for my Dixieland group) and for the first stages of creating a big band arrangements. However, when I am playing the melody as the only front-line instrument, I just use the straight lead sheet more or less as published and I add my own interpretations/enhancements and whole-chorus improvisations as I go along. I always give the same straight lead sheet to the rhythm section (in treble clef) and they make up their own parts. I usually play a number of choruses, with an enhanced melody to start and end and improvised choruses between.

Using straight lead sheets is the way that everyone I know plays in jazz groups and always has - unless we have a proper arranged and harmonised arrangement. If I am the one doing this kind of arrangement, I use the Band-in-the-Box harmonies because it is so much faster than working out the harmonies from first principles. Band-in-a-Box harmonies are very comprehensive and very good. I would then drop the Band-in-a-Box file into Sibelius or Overture 4 to make it possible to print out all the parts properly. Band-in-a-Box notation is not good enough for this process.

Another good fun way I use Band-in-a-Box is for two-trombone groups (Kai & JJ style) and I put the second part on the Soloist track. Great for practicing and these parts can be used for playing out with just a few added handwritten notations. I have quite a few of these.

Now, can I lean on your expertise and ask you exactly how you are posting your music sheets on this forum? Since the Gallery stopped accepting new PDFs, photos etc., I have not worked out a satisfactory method of doing this. Or perhaps you can point to a topic where this has been explained. Thanks.

Thanks Grah!

As you know, I am new to this sort of thing. "Interpretation" it is, then.

I can do a bit of basic improv. But what I am attempting to do here is what I label "compositional jazz". Compositional because it is written down. Jazz because it deviates from playing the melody line straight, articulation embellishments not with-standing.

Towards that end, I like making a 2-staff line. I can see the pristine melody on the bottom staff that I can use as a reference and for tracking to make sure I am staying on target with the accompaniment. I got the idea from the play-along song books I have. That's how some of them do it. If I was to actually play this with a live group, then I would either memorize my part or delete the bottom staff and print out my personal lead sheet.

Thank you - as always - for your tips on using BiaB! I'm going to copy/paste your ideas into a Word doc to keep on my desk top, so it's visually handy to look at as a reference.

OK. I obviously print out my lead sheet(s). Then I scan them and save them on my hard drive. I upload them to Photobucket. Any photo-hosting web-site should work. I copy the image address and paste it into the post and then click on the "image" icon so that TTF site knows it's an image. I preview my post to make sure it all works and away I go.

I wish there was a more populated sub-set of us BiaB users on this Forum. It really is quite a nice tool. You may use it for practice, but for me - it's that AND it's my own little combo. Some of us also like the more advanced play-along books available, with their full orchestration. That's terrific. But I get a real kick out of knowing that if I perform a tune for a friend or family - it is MY product - whether it's called an arrangement or an interpretation.

How cool is it to perform your own work! I guess the next step would be original composition.

OBTW: sometimes when I want to learn how someone else does a particular post, I click on "quote" and look at their original posting. If you were to do that with one of my posts above, you could see that I used Photobucket and the "image" icon. Just a tip. Hope it helps.

Thanks again...

...Geezer

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:16 am

After I've slept on it, I have to argue a point, Graham. You state that I am not making "arrangements", but rather "interpretations". Thing is, I often find BiaB accompaniments that have been worked out by someone else to be not exactly what I need.

I often times have to make changes in the chord progressions because they have been changed from the original composition. I also sometimes need BiaB to devise a suitable intro.

I usually also don't like the format of the accompaniment I pick up. I don't like repeat signs. They don't work for what I want to do. So I usually end up taking them out and then copy/paste chord progressions back into the format I want.

I always kill the melody line and almost always kill the soloist line.

I've done about a dozen of these "things" so far and on one, I got BiaB to change the key signature about 2/3 of the way through. Instead of just slamming into a new key, I worked out - by ear - a plausible chord change to more gracefully go into the key change.

I also tend to change around the ending of the song from the accompaniment I get.

And I very often change the tempo, key signature and style.

All of those things - added up - make me use the term "arrangement" for what I do because I am, well - arranging things. Or maybe what I do is a "re-arrangement". lol

I also think there is another reason why younger members of this Forum have not contributed to this thread. They can't. So I want to share a little secret on how I enhance a melody line. I could deviate a LOT from the melody if I wanted to but I don't want to because I detest when performers do that. What I do, is step away from my horn and imagine the melody line in my head how I would want it to sound. Then I go back to my horn and work it out. I do that process phrase by phrase through the song.

Some talented guys can do it on-the-fly as they play. I can't - yet. In fact, I find the imagination part of it to be so difficult that there are many times I simply can't get the right side of my brain working that way. Sometimes I have to leave my music studio and go do something physically mundane, like vacuuming the carpet to get my head in the right place. And when it is, no matter what I am doing - cooking dinner or something - I stop and go write it down. Even if I don't get the notes quite right, I try to get the essence of the rhythm pattern correct.

I believe many people look at a blank sheet of paper and go equally blank. But for me, that's not how it's done - just staring at a blank page won't get me any ideas. I have to hear the melody variations in my head first, out shopping, napping, whatever. Even after I set my ideas down using Fidelity - the re-writes start because often what I thought would be nice is just plain awful. lol But as with anything, repetition makes for mental shortcuts. So I view this whole process as a giant baby step towards doing improv on-the-fly. Giant baby step? lol

Oh, and there's that BiaB thing that is a deal-breaker for many, many guys. Too much work involved for them in understanding how it operates. I know of at least one fairly good player on this Forum who has resigned himself to the play-along books because he can't wrap his head around BiaB and doesn't want to try. Yeah. That's a thing, alright. I had it for a solid year before I finally decided to have at it in earnest because it was that daunting to me. Now it's indispensable!

There is a discussion specifically on BiaB on this Forum here:

BiaB Discussion On TTF

...Geezer

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:20 pm

Don't get me wrong. You should do whatever works for you. Your method seems a good way to work towards being able to express the melody in your own way and then ultimately to fully improvised choruses.

From my point of view, it is easier to use the straight melody as a lead sheet. But you have to remember that I started my playing with small jazz groups and I knew how to read chords right from the beginning. Also, I would memorise the melodies rather than read them. In fact, in the old days of playing jazz, we all used to memorise even the chords, but we all had chord books to refer to if necessary.

This is that same trumpet player in recent years and you can see he is still playing the lead without music. But that is probably a chord book, or maybe a list of tunes, on the floor:

These days, when memories are not so good

and there is need to have a large repertoire, the Band-in-a-Box lead sheets are necessary. I make them up into band folders (the yellow ones) for each member of the band. Our own Fake Books in fact. However, that trumpet player, coming from the same jazz background, knows most of the melodies by ear:

I realise it is difficult for people who come from a conventional music reading background to operate in this way but it is the norm, certainly for Traditional Jazz bands. And the ultimate is to dispense with the music stands altogether because it really does look so much better if you don't have them stuck in your face coming between you and the audience.

BTW, regarding chord books, you can get these on the internet, rather than having to collect them over the years:

http://www.jazzpilgrims.co.uk/Jazz%20Pilgrims%20page%20twelve.htm

One other thing I should mention is that Band-in-a-Box will do a certain amount of enhancing the melody for you when you use the 'Melody Embellisher'. The things it does are a useful tip on some ways you can do it manually:

Humanize
Adjust Octave
Anticipations
Less Anticipations
Grace Notes
Doubled Notes
Extra Notes
Note Turns
(The above can be adjusted by percentage)
Vibrato
"Laid Back" feeling to melody
You can also adjust the Dynamic Range and Legato Setting.

It is a good feature if you want to listen to Band-in-a-Box playing the melody rather than just being an accompaniment.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:07 pm

Off-topic, but I love your drummer's kit in the middle picture. Looks so very 1940s. Does he have a light inside the bass drum as well?

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:27 pm

Just continuing off topic - Yeah, a great drum kit! I would guess 36" diameter and would almost certainly have a light inside to go with the painted landscape. I am a bit of an expert because, as I have previously mentioned, I started out in the music business as a drummer and I had a drum kit just like that one.

However, I should point out that he is not 'my' drummer and I do not know him. The trumpet player in the pictures is Derek Winters, who I used to play with and who is now quite famous in the UK and Europe for playing New Orleans style jazz - hence the vintage drum kit. The second photo is one of his bands of the present day. I have not seen Derek since he and his 'now' wife waved goodbye to us when we caught the plane to Australia in 1966. We do keep in touch and are determined to play together again before we check out. I just got some correspondence from him over Christmas and he is planning to visit New Orleans for a couple of weeks in April. He thinks the days of hearing a Band like Bunk Johnson's (his hero, along with Ken Colyer) are long past but finds that the music is still so vibrant there he cannot keep away. He has played with some of the musicians from New Orleans and elsewhere in the US when they toured Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvJQDL2HTCI

Later in the year he will return to the US to visit The Grand Canyon with his wife for their 50th Wedding Anniversary. They were not even married when I left England. Time passes quickly when your having fun.

Okay, back to Band-in-a-Box.............

ttf_Andrew Meronek · Post by **ttf_Andrew Meronek** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:17 pm

Depending on your intent, you may want to pay more attention to the lyrics of the song you're altering - specifically to how strong and weak spoken syllables align with strong and weak beats in the musical meter. This turns out to be pretty useful, not just to keep your melody grounded in the original, but also to keep harmonically strong notes on strong rhythmic beats. Like all rules, that one can be broken, but is a pretty good one to start with.

There are a couple of notational quirks I noticed too: obscuring beat three when a dotted quarter note starts on the and of 2; beaming eighth notes across a beat but not inclusive of a beat (You've Got A Friend bar 2).

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:43 pm

Just a reminder to Band-in-a-Box users, and potential users, that the special Christmas Package offers will end on 31st December. Although the time limit always seem like a bit of an arm twister to me. However, they are Substantial savings on the regular prices:

http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm

And do not forget to check the updates page and download them because there have already been two for the 2017 version:

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.htm

Andrew, you might like the 2017 version because it has a new GUI and I know you have been complaining about this for years.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:49 am

Quote from: Graham Martin on Dec 26, 2016, 03:20PMDon't get me wrong. You should do whatever works for you. Your method seems a good way to work towards being able to express the melody in your own way and then ultimately to fully improvised choruses.

From my point of view, it is easier to use the straight melody as a lead sheet. But you have to remember that I started my playing with small jazz groups and I knew how to read chords right from the beginning. Also, I would memorise the melodies rather than read them. In fact, in the old days of playing jazz, we all used to memorise even the chords, but we all had chord books to refer to if necessary.

This is that same trumpet player in recent years and you can see he is still playing the lead without music. But that is probably a chord book, or maybe a list of tunes, on the floor:

These days, when memories are not so good

and there is need to have a large repertoire, the Band-in-a-Box lead sheets are necessary. I make them up into band folders (the yellow ones) for each member of the band. Our own Fake Books in fact. However, that trumpet player, coming from the same jazz background, knows most of the melodies by ear:

I realise it is difficult for people who come from a conventional music reading background to operate in this way but it is the norm, certainly for Traditional Jazz bands. And the ultimate is to dispense with the music stands altogether because it really does look so much better if you don't have them stuck in your face coming between you and the audience.

BTW, regarding chord books, you can get these on the internet, rather than having to collect them over the years:

http://www.jazzpilgrims.co.uk/Jazz%20Pilgrims%20page%20twelve.htm

One other thing I should mention is that Band-in-a-Box will do a certain amount of enhancing the melody for you when you use the 'Melody Embellisher'. The things it does are a useful tip on some ways you can do it manually:

Humanize
Adjust Octave
Anticipations
Less Anticipations
Grace Notes
Doubled Notes
Extra Notes
Note Turns
(The above can be adjusted by percentage)
Vibrato
"Laid Back" feeling to melody
You can also adjust the Dynamic Range and Legato Setting.

It is a good feature if you want to listen to Band-in-a-Box playing the melody rather than just being an accompaniment.

Not having music in front is THE highest standard! But as an amateur, playing occasionally in a band with well over 100 selections is just too daunting - especially a band where every note has to be played exactly as it was written, unless it is a solo.

That's a lot of info on chord books! Thanks for sharing!

I don't mind at all if this thread gets tossed around along any number of tangents. And if it turns into a BiaB thread, that's fine as well. It's all good info.

I may play with those BiaB melody settings for fun, but any creativity towards completion of my winter project has to come exclusively from within me.

Quote from: Andrew Meronek on Dec 26, 2016, 08:17PMDepending on your intent, you may want to pay more attention to the lyrics of the song you're altering - specifically to how strong and weak spoken syllables align with strong and weak beats in the musical meter. This turns out to be pretty useful, not just to keep your melody grounded in the original, but also to keep harmonically strong notes on strong rhythmic beats. Like all rules, that one can be broken, but is a pretty good one to start with.

There are a couple of notational quirks I noticed too: obscuring beat three when a dotted quarter note starts on the and of 2; beaming eighth notes across a beat but not inclusive of a beat (You've Got A Friend bar 2).

Thank you. You can tell at a glance that I am home-grown. lol Bar two does work, but unless one is familiar with my chart, it's easy to stub a toe on it because it just isn't done. Easy for me to "correct" by making the two 1/8th notes that follow into one 1/4 note.

Paying attention to the words of a song is a great tip. Yes, there can be a deviation from the vocal strong beat - but it should be that, a deviation - instead of a norm for the song variation - so I'll have to look at that.

Quote from: Graham Martin on Dec 26, 2016, 08:43PMJust a reminder to Band-in-a-Box users, and potential users, that the special Christmas Package offers will end on 31st December. Although the time limit always seem like a bit of an arm twister to me. However, they are Substantial savings on the regular prices:

http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm

And do not forget to check the updates page and download them because there have already been two for the 2017 version:

http://www.pgmusic.com/support.htm

Andrew, you might like the 2017 version because it has a new GUI and I know you have been complaining about this for years.

Thanks for setting a fire under me. I use BiaB a lot and I intend to keep doing so. Therefore I really ought to pony up for the yearly changes and since I'm making that commitment, why not take advantage of their sale price!

Good stuff, guys!

...Geezer

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:44 am

BiaB 2017 downloaded!

OBTW: henceforth, I think I shall call what I am doing "renditions".

...Geezer

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:02 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Dec 27, 2016, 09:44AMBiaB 2017 downloaded!

OBTW: henceforth, I think I shall call what I am doing "renditions".

...Geezer

You mean you are taking them to secret prisons?

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:19 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Dec 27, 2016, 10:02AMYou mean you are taking them to secret prisons?

...for execution!

...Geezer

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:54 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Dec 27, 2016, 05:49AM...............

Thanks for setting a fire under me. I use BiaB a lot and I intend to keep doing so. Therefore I really ought to pony up for the yearly changes and since I'm making that commitment, why not take advantage of their sale price!

Good stuff, guys!

...Geezer

Maybe too late, since you have now downloaded but I should also mention that they now have a monthly payment option, which eases the "pony up", especially at this expensive time of the year.

I took advantage of this option when I placed my order this morning. I'll take the pain in easy hits, thanks very much.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:22 pm

Quote from: Graham Martin on Dec 27, 2016, 02:54PMMaybe too late, since you have now downloaded but I should also mention that they now have a monthly payment option, which eases the "pony up", especially at this expensive time of the year.

I took advantage of this option when I placed my order this morning. I'll take the pain in easy hits, thanks very much.

No problem. I have BiaB on three CPU's, so I need to take them one-at-a-time. I also ordered the disc, in case I lose the downloads somehow.

...Geezer

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:22 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Dec 27, 2016, 03:22PMNo problem. I have BiaB on three CPU's, so I need to take them one-at-a-time. I also ordered the disc, in case I lose the downloads somehow.

...Geezer

I know what you mean. I have tried to download the upgrade in previous years but it is almost impossible from Australia with our slow internet speeds. But then I switched to Audiophile and I now just wait for the external drive to arrive. Also you can swap the external drive between computers if you want to.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:37 am

So here's my "rendition" of "Under The Boardwalk", performed on my vintage King 3B/F, recorded with an EV RE20 mic & Audacity; using Band-in-a-Box as my accompaniment.

Under The Boardwalk

I can hear that I rush some phrases a wee bit. Certainly can't fault BiaB for it's splendid accompaniment, though!

Pretty happy with this rendition at present, so it's time to finalize it in Fidelity and move on.

...Geezer

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:26 pm

I love arranging so I appreciate the fact that you've posted these. While I can't listen to them, just by looking at them I see some potential problem areas. For Blue Moon you've got a couple of areas where the 2 lines are playing some of the same pitches almost simultaneously, then suddenly, are playing an octave apart. One thing to be avoided is harmonizing small intervals down "in the staff" (measures 7-9 for example).
A common arranging technique is just to write a 3rd or 6th below the main melody. If the melody dips down into the stsff, take the melody up so that a harmonization doesn't sound muddy.
On second look, it looks like you wrote a solo based on the melody Blue Moon, and just posted it in the top staff. That's fine, but you could actually arrange the top staff by writing a 3rd under it, and just get rid of the original melody altogether-sort of like a harmonized solo written as a duet.

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:42 pm

I like that.

The sound was very good and I am interested in hearing about your detailed process of recording using Audacity.

Do you have the free or Pro version of Audacity?.

Am I correct in thinking that you do not record your trombone into a file for use in the Band-in-a-Box program?

Do you record the BiaB backing direct into Audacity or via your speakers?

Do you use earphones?

This is an area where I am extremely lacking in knowledge. I have only recently decided to try and master the process of recording myself.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:42 pm

Quote from: Arrowhead99 on Dec 28, 2016, 02:26PMI love arranging so I appreciate the fact that you've posted these. While I can't listen to them, just by looking at them I see some potential problem areas. For Blue Moon you've got a couple of areas where the 2 lines are playing some of the same pitches almost simultaneously, then suddenly, are playing an octave apart. One thing to be avoided is harmonizing small intervals down "in the staff" (measures 7-9 for example).
A common arranging technique is just to write a 3rd or 6th below the main melody. If the melody dips down into the stsff, take the melody up so that a harmonization doesn't sound muddy.
On second look, it looks like you wrote a solo based on the melody Blue Moon, and just posted it in the top staff. That's fine, but you could actually arrange the top staff by writing a 3rd under it, and just get rid of the original melody altogether-sort of like a harmonized solo written as a duet.

Hi,

Unless I misunderstand you, you've misunderstood me. lol The second line isn't a harmony part. It's the original melody line that I use for reference when enhancing the melody in the top line. The second line doesn't get played by anyone. I could simply strip it off when I'm done, but I choose to leave it in case I want to revise my work some day. Some play-along song books are also constructed this way.

Good luck with your arranging!

...Geezer

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:17 pm

Quote from: Graham Martin on Dec 28, 2016, 02:42PMI like that.

The sound was very good and I am interested in hearing about your detailed process of recording using Audacity.

Do you have the free or Pro version of Audacity?.

Am I correct in thinking that you do not record your trombone into a file for use in the Band-in-a-Box program?

Do you record the BiaB backing direct into Audacity or via your speakers?

Do you use earphones?

This is an area where I am extremely lacking in knowledge. I have only recently decided to try and master the process of recording myself.

Thanks for your kind compliment and your interest, Grah. You've always demonstrated a willingness on this Forum to share your knowledge and I think it's very admirable. I'll try to answer your questions point by point.

1) "Do you have the free or Pro version of Audacity?" I have the free version. I didn't even know there was a pro version. Now you have me curious. lol

2) "Am I correct in thinking that you do not record your trombone into a file for use in the Band-in-a-Box program?" Correct. I know there is possibly a better way, but what I feel most comfortable doing is to save my BiaB accompaniment file as a wave file in Audacity. I usually add some amplification to it once it's saved. I then play that accompaniment wave file through my stereo system with the volume down as low as possible. I record into that wave file with Audacity - what I call - "karaoke-style". I'll keep all of my efforts and use the best of how ever many takes it requires for me to get the best product. In this case, I used the Audacity compressor to level the highs. Then I adjusted my sound for the mic by dropping the lows from the 200hz point on a curve to -12db and I gave it a nudge on a curve from the 2000 through the 5000hz area by +3db. I don't really want to do those things, but I feel I have to to restore my sound. I then give it a small, dark room reverb if the accompaniment sounds wet and it did, so I did.

3) "Do you record the BiaB backing direct into Audacity or via your speakers?" No. Not necessary, since it's already been saved as a wave file.

4) "Do you use earphones?" No. I know I should. I know I should just hit the record button on BiaB. I've tried. But I really do not like using even 1/2 of a headphone set. I suppose I could get an even cleaner recording the right way, but since I'm doing this for my own entertainment and not for commercial work, I get pretty good household-quality results.

Please either feel free to use this thread or open another with what you are learning about recording using BiaB! I have no problem at all with this thread turning into a mish-mosh of my "rendition" efforts and/or BiaB.

In a subsequent post, I'll put up the lead sheets I devised for "Under The Boardwalk". It's a work-in-progress. I need to enhance my second run-through to make it a bit different from my first run-through. But for now, I just repeat.

...Geezer

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:47 pm

So here's the pics of my little "rendition" of "Under The Boardwalk":

It's a work-in-progress. The lead sheets are guides. I try to adjust the articulation & timing to play it the way I want it to sound, as opposed to my faulty notation.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:35 am

Graham and all,

Take my recording method with a grain of salt. There are other and probably better ways.

It's been over a year since I have recorded myself and my tone has improved - thanks in large part to my instructor, Bob Riddle. Out of habit, I used the same massaging techniques post-recording as I always did. Today, I discovered that I didn't need to do any of that. My sound is good enough to just use the "raw" recording, mix it down with the accompaniment and then add a bit of reverb to the whole thing.

Here's my little simple rendition of "Blue Moon" (notation shown in one of the above posts of mine):

Geezer's Rendition of Blue Moon

For the first pass, I used a bucket mute. I've always had trouble getting a decent sound with a bucket mute and now I know why. For me, using a mute takes a LOT of finesse. I've always tended to over-blow when using one. The result was that the horn got backed up and there was a nasty rattling sound = not good. Problem solved!

...Geezer

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:19 pm

I decided, rather than mess up your topic with my questions about recording, to open a separate topic in Technology:

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,97046.new.html#new

So I reposted your replies so far.

I do hope some experts will be able to chip in on this topic.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:41 pm

Quote from: Graham Martin on Dec 29, 2016, 03:19PMI decided, rather than mess up your topic with my questions about recording, to open a separate topic in Technology:

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,97046.new.html#new

So I reposted your replies so far.

I do hope some experts will be able to chip in on this topic.

I don't view it as a divergence to this thread, but it's cool. I'll follow along on that topic you started. I have some procedures - but like you - I want to see what others with more experience might post.

...Geezer

ttf_Andrew Meronek · Post by **ttf_Andrew Meronek** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:22 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Dec 28, 2016, 08:37AMSo here's my "rendition" of "Under The Boardwalk", performed on my vintage King 3B/F, recorded with an EV RE20 mic & Audacity; using Band-in-a-Box as my accompaniment.

Under The Boardwalk

I can hear that I rush some phrases a wee bit. Certainly can't fault BiaB for it's splendid accompaniment, though!

Pretty happy with this rendition at present, so it's time to finalize it in Fidelity and move on.

...Geezer

Yeah, man. You got a great core sound.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:13 am

Quote from: Andrew Meronek on Dec 30, 2016, 12:22AMYeah, man. You got a great core sound.

Thanks! That's exactly how my instructor - Rob Riddle - has characterized my sound. It's been a tough sound for me to obtain consistently, but I'm starting to get the hang of it a little bit. He has me on the Michael Davis "15-Minute Warm-Up" book daily (actually I do it twice a day) and both his instruction and it have really helped. But now I'm wondering how I can get more overtones into my sound to liven it up a little.

...Geezer

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:22 am

Okay, so this will be my last recording installment in this thread. All the rest of my renditions will be within the mold of the three that I have posted, so nothing new planned.

I had to make a few changes from my original concept. Some things are still a bit questionable as to musical merit, but there are some nice places as well.

You've Got A Friend

Big production. lol It's a kinda long song in the first place and I run through it twice.

...Geezer

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:38 pm

I went searching for this topic because I have changed my mind about Geezer's approach to writing down and playing tunes with his own phrasing and embellishments etc. It came about because I was putting together a series of tunes that are supposed to be the Standards to learn by ear. I found that I wanted to make my version of a tune sound a bit like one of my trombone heroes each time I played it. Not a complete transcription as such, but phrased similarly. Hence I needed to write down some of the key phrases I wanted to use in the melody.

Band-in-a-Box is the ideal tool for this because it is so easy to edit chords and the melody, and change the key.

Mind you it is going to take a long time to modify some sixty Standards from the fake book versions I have already entered. And a lot of listening to my favourite musicians, which is something I like to do anyway. Some tunes do not need any conversion because I already know them very well and have my own way of playing them.

So, even though Geezer has now abandoned the process, I have got to say that it is a good one for my latest project.

Just in passing. I discovered a very nice version of one of these Standards with quite an unusual treatment. The tune is "Willow Weep For Me" played by Curtis Fuller, which is about No.13 in the list of top standards. Most of the sax players do this tune in G at about 60 bpm. Curtis has abandoned the normal key and gone for Bb, I think mainly because the range of the tune for trombone is better in this key. G is either too high or too low. However, the unusual thing he has done is to abandon the ballad approach, double the number of bars and play it more bouncy - again easily done in Band-in-a-Box. I really like his version better than the standard treatment by a host of sax players:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWsE__aFwHM

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:17 am

Nice! Curtis is one guy who can play a ballad rather staccato & detached and yet sound darn good doing it.

I admire you for being very active in this process.

I haven't stalled out or abandoned my original idea. In fact, I am hard at play with it. I've done 14 "arrangements" this winter so far. By the time I'm done with this winter project, I should have about 20 completed. Things will be rather hectic for me this summer, so I plan on going back through them one-at-a-time and working out some weak spots. Then, next winter - back at it.

Here is my latest rendition. I hope no one mistakenly tries to compare me to the top pro we just heard on Grah's post (or anyone else, for that matter). But I think I came up with some nice little melodic enhancements for my 2nd pass (starting around 1:35) through the chorus of this Roy Orbison classic

Blue Bayou

I kept my rendition in it's original key because I (obviously) still need a lot of work in my lower/middle range.

OBTW: anyone other than Grah with eyes on this page - I'm not asking for a critique on my playing. That's between me & my instructor.

But if anyone would like to comment on style or anything relating to my "arrangement" or use of BiaB, that's fine and thank you.

...Geezer

ttf_Graham Martin · Post by **ttf_Graham Martin** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:36 pm

Nice!

And it is also one of the tunes I have in my master list of files that I have entered into Band-in-a-Box over the years, but without adding any special phrasing. The changes I made to the Orbison original were to use 'C' as the key and not 'F', which makes the top note a D6 (fourth line up in treble cleff). This happens to be my top note these days.

Well, it was also the top of the range used by TD in most of his recordings.

And I changed the rhythm to a Bossa (Bossa Piano Trio w/ Conga), which strangely enough is similar to that old rock rhythm from the 50s but more jazzy.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:17 pm

Thanks Grah.

I must be using your BiaB accompaniment then because it's in Boss style. And yes, it does have a certain quality to it we both seem to like for that very fine melody.

For now, I'm trying to keep all my pieces keyed lowish. I need the practice playing in that range with better articulation and fluidity. Also, If I go to play all of the ones I've done one-right-after-the-other, it would be too much for me to play them all up high. But as we both know, one of the splendid things with Fidelity AND BiaB, is we are only a click or two away from putting the melody line and the accompaniment up (or down) how ever many steps we want. So among other things, BiaB is a fantastic training tool, as well as a credible ah-hock accompaniment. And I can always go back to my melody lines for re-writes as I see fit.

Some other tunes I'm working on or have worked on are:

Lionel Richie's "Hello"

The Police "Every Breath You Take"

The Bee Gee's "How Deep Is You Love"

Jim Croce's "I've Got A Name"

Joe Cocker's "You Are So Beautiful"

And others to be discovered.

Artists through the years have tended to perform the music of their lives. That's what I'm setting out to do and I'm not waiting for Hal Leonard or anyone to publish them in play-alongs that I don't much like anyway. Perhaps even 20 years ago we could not have done this, but now we can and I intend to make use of the resources available to me.

...Geezer

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:17 pm

Thanks Grah.

I must be using your BiaB accompaniment then because it's in Boss style. And yes, it does have a certain quality to it we both seem to like for that very fine melody.

For now, I'm trying to keep all my pieces keyed lowish. I need the practice playing in that range with better articulation and fluidity. Also, If I go to play all of the ones I've done one-right-after-the-other, it would be too much for me to play them all up high. But as we both know, one of the splendid things with Fidelity AND BiaB, is we are only a click or two away from putting the melody line and the accompaniment up (or down) how ever many steps we want. So among other things, BiaB is a fantastic training tool, as well as a credible ah-hock accompaniment. And I can always go back to my melody lines for re-writes as I see fit.

Some other tunes I'm working on or have worked on are:

Lionel Richie's "Hello"

The Police "Every Breath You Take"

The Bee Gee's "How Deep Is You Love"

Jim Croce's "I've Got A Name"

Joe Cocker's "You Are So Beautiful"

And others to be discovered.

Artists through the years have tended to perform the music of their lives. That's what I'm setting out to do and I'm not waiting for Hal Leonard or anyone to publish them in play-alongs that I don't much like anyway. Perhaps even 20 years ago we could not have done this, but now we can and I intend to make use of the resources available to me.

...Geezer