TromboneChat

I am searching for orchestral pieces that are rarely performed but have great trombone solos.

Here is an example: "Symphonisches Praeludium" by Mahler or Brucker or Krzyzanowski or Guersching or ???

It is a nice interesting piece that is relatively short (7 minutes) and thus easy to program. It is rarely performed because it has a confusing history due to an almost Kafka-like chain of events: In brief, a manuscript was found in the estate of Krzyzanowski, who studied with Mahler under Bruckner. The manuscript bears Krzyzanowski's name but it attributed by the writer on the last page to Bruckner. A reduction of it without the attribution was given to a friend who suggested that it is an early lost work of Mahler and ask (without knowledge of the original manuscript) Guersching to produce a fully instrumented version (based on a torn up version of the reduction). Only later some conductor figured out that there are now two versions of it but when this guy died without heirs the original manuscript was thrown into the garbage by the city workers cleaning out the apartment. For information, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonic_Prelude_(Bruckner)

I only know the Guersching version. The first few bars are a little mystic, then it turns quickly a little sentimental and develops further into parts that would make John Williams proud. It anticipates some music from Bruckner's 9th Symphony but then it sounds sometimes like Mahler. It is somewhat a chameleon. But why should we really care who composed it? Good music shouldn't require a name attached to it. The audience will love it. It has very nice almost trombone solos. The trombone is probably the dominant solo instrument in this piece.

A recording of the Guersching version was done by Neeme Jaervi with the Scottish National Orchestra under the title "Symphonisches Praeludium by Gustav Mahler":
https://youtu.be/JiRdgFLEn8M By the way, who knows who is the principal trombone there at that time?

The music including parts for the Guersching version can be procured
from Sikorski:
http://www.sikorski.de/475/de/0/a/0/orchesterwerke/1001016_symphonisches_pr_ludium.html

The partitur and faksimili of the original version can be procured
from Doblinger: (I am not sure whether they got parts.)
https://www.doblinger.at/de/Artikel/Symphonisches-Praeludium.htm

I think Sibelius' 7th is rarely performed.  Possibly because it's the one Sibelius symphony you have to pay to rent.

I've been agitating for one of my local orchestras to do it.  Even offered to pick up the rental.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-pLs_RwP0c

Hindemith Nobilissima Visione (the Ballet NOT the suite)
Huge trombone solo at 32'55"
Great playing by the way!

Quote from: Tim Dowling on Nov 27, 2016, 04:12AMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-pLs_RwP0c

Hindemith Nobilissima Visione (the Ballet NOT the suite)
Huge trombone solo at 32'55"
Great playing by the way!

Wow

Both the quality of playing and themusic itself. ..!
Do You know what orchestra/soloist ?
Anyway thanks for sharing ! 

Trond

Quote from: tbarh on Nov 27, 2016, 04:22AMWow

Both the quality of playing and themusic itself. ..!
Do You know what orchestra/soloist ?


It says in the details under the video.

Ko-Ichiro Yamamoto and the Seattle Symphony Orchestra

Really good playing, I agree, and a good recorded trombone sound too.

Off the top of my head:

Berlioz, Symphonie Funubre Et Triomphale, 2nd movement
Stravinsky, Agon (Ballet)
Shostakovich, The Bolt (bass trombone)
Adams, City Noir
Respighi, Roman Festivals, last movement (not very lesser-known)

There's an article on this same topic in the recent ITA Journal. Some of the same pieces mentioned, so I won't double down. There's a nice solo in the Kurt Weil- 2nd Symphony. I recently played a piece by Goliov for solo cello (with a solo percussion group). Can't remember the title, but there are nice little solos for the 1st trombone (sort of like short Russian Easter solos - a couple of bars long at a time). On that occasion, our CEO at the time (not a musician) came up to me at a reception after the concert and congratulated me on my "Trumpet playing". No wonder we have trouble getting our literature performed.

Jim Scott

Quote from: Bcschipper on Nov 27, 2016, 01:02AMA recording of the Guersching version was done by Neeme Jaervi with the Scottish National Orchestra under the title "Symphonisches Praeludium by Gustav Mahler":
https://youtu.be/JiRdgFLEn8M By the way, who knows who is the principal trombone there at that time?


Lance Green would have been principal for the SNO/Jarvi recordings.  He currently still plays 2nd with the (now) RSNO.  Second would have been Brian Free and bass played by Bob Hughes.

Ronnie

Seems unlikely that Symphonisches Praeludium is by either Bruckner or Mahler.

Interesting discussion here: http://gustavmahlerboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=1527.0.

HK Gruber - Frankenstein!!!

I don't know if you're including operatic repertoire, but if so - Abroise Thomas' Hamlet.

There's a nice chorale that opens the Overture to Verdi's "Nabucco".  Just 3 trombones and Cimbasso (or tuba).  Bet it would work even better with 4 trombones.

Quote from: BGuttman on Nov 28, 2016, 11:56AMThere's a nice chorale that opens the Overture to Verdi's "Nabucco".  Just 3 trombones and Cimbasso (or tuba).  Bet it would work even better with 4 trombones.

Quick! Get the lid back on that can of worms!

Shostakovich's 4th and 12th Symphonies don't get played much and have trombone solos.

Malcolm Arnold's Tam O'Shanter Overture is a really good trombone feature.

Section features were not inquired about, only solos.

Many thanks for all the suggestions so far. Let's summarize (please feel free to add further). I took the liberty to add links to recordings on Youtube for easy reference.

Sibelius 7. Symphony https://youtu.be/ZOfUYtSXaXI

Hindemith Nobilissima Visione (the Ballet NOT the suite) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-pLs_RwP0c

Berlioz, Symphonie Funubre Et Triomphale, 2nd movement https://youtu.be/BEcSQ8BTlPQ?t=17m34s

Stravinsky, Agon (Ballet) https://youtu.be/CoW3-YcjHsY

Shostakovich, The Bolt (bass trombone) https://youtu.be/IcDL8wauKc0

Adams, City Noir https://youtu.be/l6137doeimU

Respighi, Roman Festivals, last movement (not very lesser-known) https://youtu.be/bIMAicXgZP4

Kurt Weill - 2nd Symphony https://youtu.be/jLKcIHZYPew

H.K. Gruber - Frankenstein https://youtu.be/kW_jD2RK5lA?t=24m04s

Shostakovich - 4th Symphony https://youtu.be/9MjPsYs6b8k

Shostakovich - 12th Symphony https://youtu.be/K_IGkwov3EM

Malcolm Arnold's Tam O'Shanter Overture https://youtu.be/ceWSd1-udgM

Verdi Overture Nabucco https://youtu.be/hIyZNJKu1ik

Abroise Thomas' Hamlet https://youtu.be/P70KBHeDw7U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnePcliodSo

Strauss Die Frau ohne Schatten Symphonic fantasy
Trombone solo at 9'13"
Also a great example of traditional German trombone sound

Quote from: Tim Dowling on Nov 28, 2016, 11:26PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnePcliodSo

Strauss Die Frau ohne Schatten Symphonic fantasy
Trombone solo at 9'13"
Also a great example of traditional German trombone sound


Must have been Zeumer or Essbach.

Quote from: Rockymountaintrombone on Nov 27, 2016, 06:38PMThere's an article on this same topic in the recent ITA Journal. Some of the same pieces mentioned, so I won't double down. There's a nice solo in the Kurt Weil- 2nd Symphony. I recently played a piece by Goliov for solo cello (with a solo percussion group). Can't remember the title, but there are nice little solos for the 1st trombone (sort of like short Russian Easter solos - a couple of bars long at a time). On that occasion, our CEO at the time (not a musician) came up to me at a reception after the concert and congratulated me on my "Trumpet playing". No wonder we have trouble getting our literature performed.

Jim Scott

Thank you. Does someone has a link to the article in the recent ITA Journal? Also posting here is open access while the journal is just for members only. For instance, this makes a difference for college students (who are unlikely to pay for subscriptions/membership) suggesting repertoire to their university orchestra conductors.

The piece by Goliov, was it "Azul" (https://youtu.be/RgCA8zTeFOQ)?

Stravinsky Pulcinella Suite (and presumably the whole ballet) has a trombone solo that is from the fourth movement of a Sinfonia for 'cello by Pergolesi, which has been transcribed for trombone by Ralph Sauer. The Stravinsky score is for a single trombone, and has lots of nice exposed passages throughout.

May be not as rare as others in the current list but it should qualify nevertheless:

Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov - Russian Easter Festival Overture Opus 36 https://youtu.be/j4CX4qxnA98

The low brass moments and brief 1st tenor solo from the 3rd movement of Janacek's Sinfonietta are definitely something to behold.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYN8heaRcS8

Quote from: SilverBone on Nov 27, 2016, 01:16AMI think Sibelius' 7th is rarely performed.  Possibly because it's the one Sibelius symphony you have to pay to rent.


Superb solo passage.  I've played this as few times and would be to do it again!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7oGV1RqRH4

Very interesting duet between the trombone and the tenor voice.  I've never heard that one before.  Thanks, Trombonaut.

Here you can also see this duet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3tjuayrR5s

Quote from: Trombonaut on Mar 06, 2017, 08:43AMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7oGV1RqRH4

I've never heard that before either.  Apparently that is from Mozart's first "opera" of a sort, composed at age 11.

Certainly an unusual tactic.

Or was it?  Were trombone/vocal duets a thing at the time? Or was it just some crazy 11-year-old thing to do?

We know another duet he wrote at the end of his life: the Tuba Mirum of his Requiem.

One every 22 years.  Not quite a trend.

There's also pretty challenging trombone solo in a ballet by Andrey Petrov (better known as a soviet film score composer) called Creation:
https://youtu.be/Zbwol3zc4D8?t=924

Actually for some reason I haven't noticed 15th symphony by Shostakovich in this list (or do you count it as an often played piece?). It has a few rather long trombone solos in the slow movement.
https://youtu.be/6zKJFogiAhc?t=929

Many thanks for the additional useful and interesting suggestions. Here is an updated list (alphabetically). Please feel free adding.

Adams, City Noir https://youtu.be/l6137doeimU

Malcolm Arnold's Tam O'Shanter Overture https://youtu.be/ceWSd1-udgM

H. Berlioz, Symphonie Funubre Et Triomphale, 2nd movement https://youtu.be/BEcSQ8BTlPQ?t=17m34s

Goliov "Azul" https://youtu.be/RgCA8zTeFOQ

H.K. Gruber - Frankenstein https://youtu.be/kW_jD2RK5lA?t=24m04s

P. Hindemith Nobilissima Visione (the Ballet NOT the suite) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-pLs_RwP0c

Leos Janacek Sinfonietta https://youtu.be/NCXRqgXiARA?t=10m45s

W.A. Mozart Aria "Jener Donnerworte Kraft" in "Die Schuldigkeit des Ersten Gebotes" KV 35 https://youtu.be/ju7B6tq6n4w

Andrey Petrov The Creation of the World,Suite No.1 https://youtu.be/Zbwol3zc4D8?t=924

Respighi, Roman Festivals, last movement (not very lesser-known) https://youtu.be/bIMAicXgZP4

Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov - Russian Easter Festival Overture Opus 36 https://youtu.be/j4CX4qxnA98

D. Shostakovich, The Bolt (bass trombone) https://youtu.be/IcDL8wauKc0

D. Shostakovich - 4th Symphony https://youtu.be/9MjPsYs6b8k

D. Shostakovich - 12th Symphony https://youtu.be/K_IGkwov3EM

D. Shostakovich - 15th Symphony https://youtu.be/N0iZGMXpquQ?t=15m8s

J. Sibelius 7. Symphony https://youtu.be/ZOfUYtSXaXI

R. Strauss "Die Frau ohne Schatten" Symphonic Fanatsy https://youtu.be/CnePcliodSo?t=9m12s

I. Stravinsky, Agon (Ballet) https://youtu.be/CoW3-YcjHsY

Abroise Thomas' Hamlet https://youtu.be/P70KBHeDw7U

Verdi Overture Nabucco https://youtu.be/hIyZNJKu1ik

Kurt Weill - 2nd Symphony https://youtu.be/jLKcIHZYPew

Why include Sibelius 7 and not Mahler 3?

Ronnie

Quote from: ronnies on Mar 09, 2017, 03:26AMWhy include Sibelius 7 and not Mahler 3?

Ronnie

I guess the question behind your question is what constitutes "rare"? "Rarity" is necessarily a somewhat subjective judgement since I am not aware of an empirical study that shows the frequencies which which works are performed or excepts are required in an audition.

Doug Yeo lists trombone excerpts in what he writes is the order of frequency asked, see https://www.yeodoug.com/resources/text/audrep.html. It list Mahler 3rd in 13. position but does not even mention Sibelius 7. This may be an answer to your question.

Quote from: Bcschipper on Mar 08, 2017, 11:40PM
 

W.A. Mozart Aria "Jener Donnerworte Kraft" in "Die Schuldigkeit des Ersten Gebotes" KV 35 https://youtu.be/ju7B6tq6n4w



This link doesn't seem to be working, at least in Finland.

Quote from: Bcschipper on Mar 09, 2017, 05:12PMI guess the question behind your question is what constitutes "rare"? "Rarity" is necessarily a somewhat subjective judgement since I am not aware of an empirical study that shows the frequencies which which works are performed or excepts are required in an audition.

Doug Yeo lists trombone excerpts in what he writes is the order of frequency asked, see https://www.yeodoug.com/resources/text/audrep.html. It list Mahler 3rd in 13. position but does not even mention Sibelius 7. This may be an answer to your question.

That's the frequency asked for at auditions, not concert performances.  I've heard (and seen) Sibelius 7 programmed far more often than Mahler 3.

Ronnie

Hindemith Concert Music for Strings and Brass.  At 12:50 and 16:20 of the following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3f_-rJQ_Os

Quote from: Trombonaut on Mar 10, 2017, 01:25AMThis link doesn't seem to be working, at least in Finland.

Very strange. Here is the description:

Published on Feb 21, 2015

Provided to YouTube by The Orchard Enterprises

Aria'jener donnerworte kraft' · Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart · Jörgen van Rijen · Combattimento Consort · Marcel Beekman

I Was Like Wow!

℗ 2009 Channel Classics Records

Released on: 2009-03-03

What do you see when you click on this link in Finland?

Quote from: ronnies on Mar 10, 2017, 06:09AMThat's the frequency asked for at auditions, not concert performances.  I've heard (and seen) Sibelius 7 programmed far more often than Mahler 3.

Ronnie

I think the list adds value only if it mostly contains "rare" works beyond what is known from common books of trombone excerpts. Of course, as mentioned before "rare" is a vague and subjective criterion. I wouldn't want to include Mahler 3 into the list (although I like it very much) because in my mind it is one of the most well-known trombone solos but if you want to create a comprehensive list of trombone solos, please do. The internet and trombone forum is perfect for it as I believe many people will contribute. I think an extremely comprehensive list would be very valuable as well. I wouldn't do it under the header "rare" though.

Quote from: fsgazda on Mar 10, 2017, 07:05AMHindemith Concert Music for Strings and Brass.  At 12:50 and 16:20 of the following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3f_-rJQ_Os

Very good. Should be included into the next version of the list.

Creston- Toccata

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYs3aqSHSRg&list=PLSfj6fWp0erx86jPmDsfwC3Wg9kNe0WlD

David Ritt, trombone soloist


PE

Quote from: Bcschipper on Mar 10, 2017, 11:14AMWhat do you see when you click on this link in Finland?
Well, it just says:
This video is not avaliable. Sorry about that. 

Hi Bischipper -

The timestamp you put on Gruber's Frankenstein!!! is actually a french horn solo.  The trombone solo (played standing, according to the direction in the part) is toward the end of the piece, around the 27 minute mark in that performance.  However, that player failed to make themselves audibly noticeable, and the camera did not show them.  I'll see if I can find a better public video.

This is light years better.

Frankenstein!!! trombone solo:

https://youtu.be/wiqpJekng_4?t=1m40s


And I have also time stamped the amazing (alto, according to some sources) trombone solo that opens the 2nd scene in Thomas' Hamlet.  I suspect Thomas and Berlioz liked each other's use of the trombone.  I had never heard of this work, and then some years back on my way to teach a lesson, I turned on MET radio on satellite and this thing came right on -  played by someone I once knew, no less.  I was so shocked to hear a giant trombone solo in the middle of an opera that I thought for 10-20 seconds that it must have been a french horn.

https://youtu.be/P70KBHeDw7U?t=29m19s

Quote from: Bcschipper on Mar 10, 2017, 11:27AMI think the list adds value only if it mostly contains "rare" works beyond what is known from common books of trombone excerpts. Of course, as mentioned before "rare" is a vague and subjective criterion. I wouldn't want to include Mahler 3 into the list (although I like it very much) because in my mind it is one of the most well-known trombone solos but if you want to create a comprehensive list of trombone solos, please do. The internet and trombone forum is perfect for it as I believe many people will contribute. I think an extremely comprehensive list would be very valuable as well. I wouldn't do it under the header "rare" though.

If it's only 'rare' peices then I'd not include the Sibelius either.   It's a very well known solo.

My point wasn't to make the Mahler 'rare' but that the Sibelius isn't 'rare' either.

Ronnie

Quote from: ronnies on Mar 11, 2017, 09:22AMIf it's only 'rare' peices then I'd not include the Sibelius either.   It's a very well known solo.

My point wasn't to make the Mahler 'rare' but that the Sibelius isn't 'rare' either.

Ronnie

I'm sure Sibelius 7 solo is very well known in some countries but Mahler 3 solo is known worldwide. At least I have never seen Sibelius 7 in audition program anywhere else except Finland.

Last movement of Milhaud's Le Creation du monde

Quote from: Trombonaut on Mar 11, 2017, 09:56AMI'm sure Sibelius 7 solo is very well known in some countries but Mahler 3 solo is known worldwide. At least I have never seen Sibelius 7 in audition program anywhere else except Finland.

It's not the most common of course, but it appears on US audition lists somewhat regularly.  Frustratingly, it is sometimes asked for without a supplied part.  I had to go to a library and copy it out by hand.

Quote from: ronnies on Mar 11, 2017, 09:22AMIf it's only 'rare' peices then I'd not include the Sibelius either.   It's a very well known solo.

My point wasn't to make the Mahler 'rare' but that the Sibelius isn't 'rare' either.

Ronnie

You are right. As I mentioned previously, "rarity" is a subjective and vague criterion. So necessarily the inclusion or exclusion may look arbitrary.

Again, many thanks for suggestions and corrections. Here is an updated list. I now included Trombonaut's suggested link of Mozart's Donnerworte Kraft since the van Rjien link is not viewable at least in Finland.

Adams, City Noir https://youtu.be/l6137doeimU

Malcolm Arnold's Tam O'Shanter Overture https://youtu.be/ceWSd1-udgM

H. Berlioz, Symphonie Funubre Et Triomphale, 2nd movement https://youtu.be/BEcSQ8BTlPQ?t=17m34s

P. Creston Toccata Op. 68 https://youtu.be/NYs3aqSHSRg?t=45s

Goliov "Azul" https://youtu.be/RgCA8zTeFOQ

H.K. Gruber - Frankenstein https://youtu.be/wiqpJekng_4?t=1m40s

P. Hindemith Nobilissima Visione (the Ballet NOT the suite) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-pLs_RwP0c

P. Hindemith Concert Music for Strings and Brass https://youtu.be/U3f_-rJQ_Os?t=12m53s

Leos Janacek Sinfonietta https://youtu.be/NCXRqgXiARA?t=10m45s

Mahler or Brucker or Krzyzanowski or Guersching Symphonisches Praeludium https://youtu.be/JiRdgFLEn8M

Milhaud Le Creation du monde https://youtu.be/DB8e_V_4b2s?t=13s

W.A. Mozart Aria "Jener Donnerworte Kraft" in "Die Schuldigkeit des Ersten Gebotes" KV 35 https://youtu.be/ju7B6tq6n4w or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3tjuayrR5s

Andrey Petrov The Creation of the World,Suite No.1 https://youtu.be/Zbwol3zc4D8?t=924

Respighi, Roman Festivals, last movement (not very lesser-known) https://youtu.be/bIMAicXgZP4

Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov - Russian Easter Festival Overture Opus 36 https://youtu.be/j4CX4qxnA98

D. Shostakovich, The Bolt (bass trombone) https://youtu.be/IcDL8wauKc0

D. Shostakovich - 4th Symphony https://youtu.be/9MjPsYs6b8k

D. Shostakovich - 12th Symphony https://youtu.be/K_IGkwov3EM

D. Shostakovich - 15th Symphony https://youtu.be/N0iZGMXpquQ?t=15m8s

J. Sibelius 7. Symphony https://youtu.be/ZOfUYtSXaXI

R. Strauss "Die Frau ohne Schatten" Symphonic Fantasy https://youtu.be/CnePcliodSo?t=9m12s

I. Stravinsky, Agon (Ballet) https://youtu.be/CoW3-YcjHsY

Abroise Thomas' Hamlet https://youtu.be/P70KBHeDw7U?t=29m19s

Verdi Overture Nabucco https://youtu.be/hIyZNJKu1ik

Kurt Weill - 2nd Symphony https://youtu.be/jLKcIHZYPew

Quote from: Bcschipper on Mar 12, 2017, 01:00AMW.A. Mozart Aria "Jener Donnerworte Kraft" in "Die Schuldigkeit des Ersten Gebotes" KV 35 https://youtu.be/ju7B6tq6n4w or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3tjuayrR5s

This "Aria" is on page 41 of the complete score you can find on IMSLP

and this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7oGV1RqRH4&feature=youtube_gdata_player