TromboneChat

I am a freshman in college and have a huge interest in jazz. Right now i use a Conn 88HO for wind ensemble/orchestra. So al of the classical stuff that isnt so demanding of range i use the concert horn for. Well in jazz i play lead and i use a King student model thats a few years old. I talked to my director about it and he said that a pro horn might help you in a lot of ways. I researched jazz horns and talked to them with my lesson teacher. Horns that i am mainly deciding on at the moment are the King 2B, Bach 16m (One that Bill Watrous uses I believe), and the Edwards jazz model. The Edwards seems a little overwhelming with all the options available, but it might be worth it. I am just curious if anyone can shed any light about which one of these horns is the best for lead playing and if theres a better model i would be happy to hear about that too.

Send DJ Kennedy a private message here on the forum.  I recently purchased a '62 King 3B from DJ.  It's a great horn.  He could definitely help you find a great horn, too.

That's quite a variety of different "jazz" horns you picked.

The King 2B is a small dual-bore (.481/.491"), the Bach 16M is a .508" bore, and the Eddie is normally 0.500 or 0.508" bore.  They also command many different prices.

So the first question is, what is the student King doing to your playing (or not doing for your playing?  Is it just "shot" (i.e. lots of dents, horribly mangled slide, etc.)?  Would fixing up the student horn allow you to play better?  I should point out that the King Clevelands (605 nowadays) were often used in big bands.  If you have a Tempo (curved bell brace) you have something that is actually as good as most "jazz" trombones.

Have you actually tried any of the models you listed?  I'd hate to see you spend a lot of money for a fancy Eddie or Shires and discover that a much less expensive Conn 6H or Holton 65 would have done the job as well.  Do you have any appreciation about the different small bore sizes?  Lots of symphony players who grab a King 2B feel like the horn is blowing back at them because it is so small compared to what they are used to.  You may even feel that way with a 3B or Bach 16M.  A .525" horn like a Bach 36 or King 3B+ may actually be more comfortable.

If you do a search on "Jazz Horn" I'd bet you will find half a dozen identical discussions to what you are asking for.  Do a little research.

As for price, I'd bet DJ Kennedy will give you the best price, but you have to help him help you by figuring out more-or-less what you are looking for.  There are quite a few quality models of small bore trombones besides just King/Bach/Conn/Yamaha and you may find that something you never heard of before is everything you ever wanted.  Ever hear of Martin?  The Committee is a great lead horn.  So is the Olds Recording.  So is the Holton 65 or the Stratodyne.

Don't buy a horn just because Player X plays it.  It might be great for him, but you are different and the best horn for you might be something else.

Good luck in your quest.


What is your problem trying to play a lot of lead trombone?

how  powerful    is the trumpet section ?????????
-------------
and  are  you doing  any  combos???????



Quote from: nickrex37 on Feb 09, 2008, 05:20PMI am a freshman in college and have a huge interest in jazz. Right now i use a Conn 88HO for wind ensemble/orchestra. So al of the classical stuff that isnt so demanding of range i use the concert horn for. Well in jazz i play lead and i use a King student model thats a few years old. I talked to my director about it and he said that a pro horn might help you in a lot of ways. I researched jazz horns and talked to them with my lesson teacher. Horns that i am mainly deciding on at the moment are the King 2B, Bach 16m (One that Bill Watrous uses I believe), and the Edwards jazz model. The Edwards seems a little overwhelming with all the options available, but it might be worth it. I am just curious if anyone can shed any light about which one of these horns is the best for lead playing and if theres a better model i would be happy to hear about that too.

Well i dont have really any serious problems playing lead i just would like something that produces a better jazz sound and something that will perform well in the extreme upper register. I play in a combo as well as the jazz ensemble if that helps.

To respond to BGuttman's statement: Don't buy a horn just because Player X plays it.  It might be great for him, but you are different and the best horn for you might be something else.

I understand that. I guess its hard to not get sucked into, "Player X is amazing, it must be his horn." Im not trying to buy a horn exclusively on who has played it, seems that you can hear what a particular horn can do. I am open to just about anything. I think I would rather have a brand new horn even though that may be foolish. I am not n expert at this stuff at all. My King student model I use now is dented and has seen its rough times.

If you're thinking of buying a new jazz horn thats vastly different from your 88H and very easy to play, make sure you test a Yamaha 697Z

some  players  like  king  //bach
8 in bells   //7  1/2 
 500   508   or  sub  500
many  choices in these sizes 
 sometimes  a sound  concept  //idea
or  players  sound /style     is  a guide
-----------so you have
2b   and variations  3b
 bachs   12  16m  /other  bachs
conns  -100h  and vintage
edwards/shires   set up   in various configurations
 other  horns  //vintage //out of production  known  and unknown
--------
budgetary  considerations  may be  a factor  also

Quote from: colin on Feb 10, 2008, 02:11PMIf you're thinking of buying a new jazz horn thats vastly different from your 88H and very easy to play, make sure you test a Yamaha 697Z

I play mostly on my Conn 88 (.525/.547), but when I want high or punch, my other horn is a Yamaha 697Z.  The Z continues to impress me. Sometimes I fear I'll hurt someone.  It takes whatever I put into it and turns it into clean sound.

Some of the parts I use it for really tickle my fancy and the first few notes out are LOUD and SHARP with gobs of snap and sizzle.  I quickly back down when the walls complain.  It is real easy to get plenty out of this horn and it seems to take too-much in stride. I suspect it is generic for jazz horn, but it sure works for me.

When you get a chance to try these horns, make sure you do it not only in one setting: IE, the back of a horn shop.  See if you can try it for a few days - play in big band, combo, play a lot on your own.  Sometimes is takes a while to get used to what the horn actually feels like.

A lot of people are going towards the big bore route (or big -er).  Slide Hampton said something to the effect: "When I was playing in the monday night vanguard orchestra, we all noticed (bass bone player) didn't have to warm up to have a good sound, it was there from the start."

Just food for thought.

Quote from: nickrex37 on Feb 10, 2008, 12:54PMWell i dont have really any serious problems playing lead i just would like something that produces a better jazz sound and something that will perform well in the extreme upper register. I play in a combo as well as the jazz ensemble if that helps.

Errrmmmm....

Are you *quite* sure you want to play in the extreme upper register?

I always think this cr..   sorry, stuff, should be left to the trumpets and saxes.

They have nothing better to do.

Get yerself a King 3B and just play jazz!

Quote from: RedHotMama on Apr 16, 2008, 01:20AMGet yerself a King 3B and just play jazz!

I second the recommendation of DJ.  He'll hook you up.  You might even be able to try out a couple horns before buying.  My personal short list of horns to check out:  King 2B, 3B, Conn 6H, 10H, Shires, Rath, Yamaha 697z etc....

I'd like to put in a second for the 3B. I've still got my 88H from my freshman year in college, that would be 1965 (and yes, it's an Elkie), and it's a great horn but I've ordered a new King 3B with the silver bell. Music, like life, is a balance of compromises. I play jazz almost exclusively and the .508 bore of the 3B is, IMHO (my wife cautions me about saying that as she maintains that I've never had a "humble opinion"), a great compromise between the round openness of the larger bores and the flexibility and punch of the sub-500 horns. If I had to compromise further, it would be the 3B+ probably. I've never had a Yammerhammer to my lips so I can't comment on them. The Conn 6H is good as is the Bach 16. I've got a '50's vintage Reynolds here that is great despite the smell of the case. If you are a romantic, soulfull kind of person, and probably should be to pursue jazz, don't rule out the older horns. Olds, Reynolds, Martin, early Whites (ne King) may each offer you a great horn, one that has far more experience than you do  , for a song. Just be demanding on the slide quality.

Are you playing a Remington mouthpiece on the 88H? If so you can possibly find a small shank Remington for the new horn. I've got one in my inventory but they are rare. Also the Conn 3 is very close to the Remmy. In fact it was the prototype for the Remington. Beware, however, as there are at least a couple of rim/cup sizes on the Conn 3. Alternatively, a Bach 6 1/2AL or Bach 9 are possible compromises.

I won't prattle on further but do consider the compromises from the almost vast pallet of choices available to you. Also remember as one sage put it here, "It ain't the horn but what's behind it that makes the music."

Bon Chance,
RD

I  WAS   kind of  suprized last week
 a  kid  came  thru  w  parents  from  kentucky    going to  ku
next year
  i  had  gotten a 3b  all ready   to go
 and also had  a  2b  just come in
 both   2b 3b  are 70s loopy  engraving  era
  THIS  2B   BLEW FANTASTIC !!!!!!!!! 
monster  open  big  fat ez  blowing -WOW 
and  this was  compared to  lotsa horns  !!!!!!!!!
 =====
so i  took  a look test of  2  recent AARON CHANDLER /ACME rebuilt  2b  slides
  sure enough  one   ==BLOWS  BIG  ///the other   more normal  --which means  tighter  -the usual thing
----------
SO  NOW   WHAT I GOTTA DO TO THE  3B  ???????????????
--------
i am thinking  LEADPIPE   FOR SURE
---

 

QuoteGet yerself a King 3B and just play jazz!Yeah baby....oh....and salsa too

Well you have a number of options:

King:

2B/2102 - Similar to Dorsey's model, very small bore, great for upper register and lead playing, this is my jazz axe of choice, but again it personally works for me. Upside is if you need upper register lead playing you wont have a problem, but that's pretty much all it does, no place in a concert setting. USed by Tommy Dorsey and Kai Winding.

3B/2013 - The 3B is an all-purpose horn, it's what JJ used for most of his carrer. Solid choice it does what you need it to. USed by many players.

4B/2014 - If you want a horn that's "similar" to your 88H this is a good choice. Definitely lighter, but it gives a nice warm tone. This is the horn Slide Hampton uses, I've never played one, but this may be what your looking for.

Bach:

Bach 6 - Discontiuned but I know Dillon's has one sale in used horns. - Beautiful horn, if you can find one. Even smaller than the 2B, but terrific for lead playing and solo playing.

Bach 8 - Similar to the 6 but bigger.

Bach 12 - A fine horn, but all it is is bach's version of a 2B+.

Bach 16 - It's a dual bore horn so it plays a little different. Needs more air, has all the advantages and disadvantages from Bach. Not my cup of tea but I know plenty of people who use it with great success.

Martin:

Urbie Green model - Fine choice for lead and jazz playing, but could be a little hard to handle.

Conn:

4H (Plenty in Dillon's used) - A very nice horn, even though it is small. I've heard it compared to both the 2B and the Bach 6, solid choice.

100H - Conn's jazz horn, solid build.

Edwards,Shires,and Rath all make jazz horns, but they're all more expensive than your legit horn, I wouldn't invest the money unless jazz was my main thing.

Try an Olds ambassador too, student horn but solid.

Look for a good 6H. It keeps surprising me at the number of things it does really well.
 I think a good 6H is unsurpassed by any other 500 bore instrument. Even the Shires I recently tried was not as meaty in tone.
If you look at the list of horns I own, you will see that I have a large basis for comparison in the 500 bore department.

While opinions certainly vary-I can't imagine throwing down the bucks for a "boutique' horn for jazz. There are so many vintage horns that do a great job for a fraction of the price.And you can find one that suits your particular playing characteristics too. I had the chance to play a dynamite Reynolds Argenta today -Nickel Silver, medium large bore,81/2" bell- just a superb horn.I would think it would be just the ticket for someone who had spent most of their time on a symphonic,large bore tenor. A few other gems for a more complete contrast would be the 28H,38H,48H all Connstellations. 28H .484 bore with 71/2" bell. 38H (my horn) .500 bore with 71/2" bell and 48H-nickel silver .500 bore with 8" bell. Martin Committee- one of the best horns I've ever played and you can find them for peanuts on e-bay sometimes. Olds Super and Recording. And a couple of the old Conn dual bores . One of the biggest steals I've ever seen was a Holton 65 that my buddy got for next to nothin'.( I DID just acquire a nice 1961 38B Connstellation trumpet for my son for $250.00- but it wasn't on e-bay- it was an "attic" horn-literally. )

There's SO many good horns out there.

Nobody's mentioned a 24H. It's a straight .485, blows like a .508 if you want to give it a little time on the low end.

Really extraordinary... but everybody gives you the fish-eye if you bring it in into some bigband situation.

****'em... The horn is unbelievable! Try one....

There's always a Bolero...

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Getzen 3508 Custon Series. Dual bore: .500/.508. Interchangeable leadpipes with 3 included. These are said to be mainly Edwards horns in a stock configuration. I have one and find it to be a very well made and free blowing horn.

Who's your favorite Jazz trombonist???

Check out what they play!!!!!

Favorite, you say? Shirley you jest!  Anyone of any age and experience knows full well, JJ Rules.

Each truly great musician must display a genius. Glenn Miller put the saxes up front and wrote them into the lead. Dorsey took his single trombone - an instrument often considered for accompaniment only - to the front of the band and featured it. Bird invented bebop and died trying to make it popular. Other woodwinds and even valve horns found the abrupt syncopation of bebop could fit on their instrument but they took their lead from Bird. I always figured that sax players did all those wild scales and runs for the same reason that dogs lick their jewels: because they can. But JJ took the trombone, an instrument everybody thought was left behind by modern jazz, into that frantic style and made it sing.

There are many fine players who get all over the axe but JJ made the trombone an integral and important part of jazz after 1950. We were not just for dixieland anymore. He took us out of the tailgate and onto the jazz club stage. He, therefore, gets my vote, and my thanks.

For many years, he played the King 3B "Silversonic".

Thus endeth the rant,

RD

Quote from: BlueTrombonist on Apr 16, 2008, 01:23PMMartin:
Urbie Green model - Fine choice for lead and jazz playing, but could be a little hard to handle.

Can you expand on this statement a little?  Someone brought in one of these horns this week to ask me what it was.  I've never seen one in person before.

Doug

Quote from: BeBopMan on Apr 17, 2008, 05:40AMFavorite, you say? Shirley you jest!  Anyone of any age and experience knows full well, JJ Rules.


Thus endeth the rant,

RD

Then it be a King 3B for you B...........BopMAN........

Right. Got me a 3B Silversonic on order ah'do. Less than a month to go. 

Cheers or Schuß as appropriate to location,
RD

Quote from: BeBopMan on Apr 17, 2008, 05:40AM
For many years, he played the King 3B "Silversonic".
RD
Sorry.

Bad information.

JJ played a standard King 3B. (brass bell)

Quote from: Koz on Apr 17, 2008, 08:26AMSorry.

Bad information.

JJ played a standard King 3B. (brass bell)

Not completely bad information, though I wouldn't say he played it for many years, and probably not in his busiest recording years.
http://www.helmutkrebs.net/musik/JJDiscography/frontman/JJDiscogr_html_m38e4151f.jpg

((It's hard to tell in this particular picture, but it's definitely an HN White-era SilverSonic. The cover on my CD is much clearer))

the dudes   first  post  on this sub  was  feb  9th
 wondering if he  dug up  a  bone  yet 
 


Quote from: nickrex37 on Feb 09, 2008, 05:20PMI am a freshman in college and have a huge interest in jazz. Right now i use a Conn 88HO for wind ensemble/orchestra. So al of the classical stuff that isnt so demanding of range i use the concert horn for. Well in jazz i play lead and i use a King student model thats a few years old. I talked to my director about it and he said that a pro horn might help you in a lot of ways. I researched jazz horns and talked to them with my lesson teacher. Horns that i am mainly deciding on at the moment are the King 2B, Bach 16m (One that Bill Watrous uses I believe), and the Edwards jazz model. The Edwards seems a little overwhelming with all the options available, but it might be worth it. I am just curious if anyone can shed any light about which one of these horns is the best for lead playing and if theres a better model i would be happy to hear about that too.

Quote from: RedHotMama on Apr 16, 2008, 01:20AMErrrmmmm....

Are you *quite* sure you want to play in the extreme upper register?

I always think this cr..   sorry, stuff, should be left to the trumpets and saxes.

They have nothing better to do.

Get yerself a King 3B and just play jazz!

One big, solid AMEN to that.  Trombones are instruments of the gods

until some tight-lipped trumpet player turns them into a slide trumpet.

Quote from: dougm on Apr 17, 2008, 06:35AMCan you expand on this statement a little?  Someone brought in one of these horns this week to ask me what it was.  I've never seen one in person before.

Doug

At one time Martin Band Instrument was a major maker of Pro horns; mostly in the 1930s to 1950s.  There were several instruments at various times that were good small bore jazz horns:

1.  Dansant.
2.  Committee.
3.  Urbie Green (who happened to be part of the Committee that designed the Committee).

There was a "Handkraft" that meant it was more carefully made.
There was an Imperial that was the Pro line before these and became the Intermediate during the reign of the Dansant and Committee.

All three are good substitutes for a Conn 6H or Bach 12 (in between the 2B and 3B).  Given the age of most Martin trombones (except for the Urbie, which was made into the 1990s while Martin became part of Holton) you may find the slides need a little work.

I had a Committee that played very well.  I sold it because I had too many horns of this ilk, and the Imperial I was using for Dixieland worked better for that use.

A friend who collects brass instruments laid out a spread of his playable trombones for me once. Most were old, heavy brass horns, but two of them opened my eyes to a world of trombones beyond my student Yamaha.  A Conn 88 straight horn and a Martin trigger made sounds I didn't think could happen powered by my breath.  He would not sell me either one.

That was the day my horizons expanded. That was the moment I really began my development as a trombonist... not that I got really far, but I sure am enjoying my sound a whole bunch with horns that suit me.

Oh yeah, there was a point to this...   The Martin ....
I had never heard of them before, yet this horn really sung.  It had a beautiful voice. On a shelf, I wouldn't have given it a glance. 

After playing, I WANTED IT... but it was my friend's only trigger horn. Today he has others, but now I have one and that's all the triggers I want.

Oh, I do hope that this doesn't start a row but JJ did do a lot of playing on the 3B SS. King even made him one with a SS bell which was nitrited black and lacquered. The King logo was then re cut into the silver. It was a stunning axe as seen on one of JJs 60's albums "Goodies"



I think he ended his performing career on a Yamaha. His popularity in Japan was huge. The Japanese are into jazz and treat jazz greats like rock stars, or sumo stars, or baseball players - you get the picture.

Best,
RD

I was under the impression that J.J. played a 3b bell and 2b slide.

My friend and I determined that Urbie would have been just 12 years old when they started making Committee trombones. The name came from the trumpet which actually WAS a group effort with Foster Reynolds, Eldon Benge,Vincent Bach ,a forgotten Chicago Symphony member and Renold Shilke. Shilke would tell anyone in earshot that he was the main designer of the horn. When a trumpet came out under that name from Holton-Leblanc he approached Wallace Roney and said"Let me see what you've done to my trumpet." This came up about a year ago-that's why I looked up Urbies date of birth etc. Now the Holton-Leblanc made Martin Urbie Green certainly had a lot of input from the man whose name is on the horn.  :)They also had a Dave Steinmeyer model that was essentially the Urbie model with a half inch smaller bell. I played The Martin Urbie exclusively for about 6 years. Unfortunately I had two bad slide drops that rendered the horn unable to hold alignment. I gave it away to a promising player that was in a band that I called on in the fundraising business. That was after I got my 1980's 100H. So I had two horns in a row with the curved left hand brace.

Just save that $$$ for a 3B!

That's what I'm doing!!!

another vote for the ysl-697z.... if you've heard one u know what i mean..... i actually have one on order, but my local dealer thinks mines coming form japan so i wont see it for a while :p

Quote from: BeBopMan on Apr 17, 2008, 11:07AMI think he ended his performing career on a Yamaha. His popularity in Japan was huge. The Japanese are into jazz and treat jazz greats like rock stars, or sumo stars, or baseball players - you get the picture.

Best,
RD

The story I heard (and honestly we'll never know for sure what happened), is that JJ had his main King break and requested a new one.  King was feeling pretty cheap and told him he had to buy one.  Around the same time JJ had a friend who was dealing with Yamaha who was just starting making trombones.  Yamaha sent JJ a whole bunch of trombones, knowing that if he didn't like them he would at least give them to his friends.  JJ then finished his career on Yamahas.  Certainly says a lot about service!

Also if Nick is still reading this, definitely give DJ a visit.  I thought for sure that when I moved from my concert large bore to a Jazz horn that a 3b would be right for me.  After playing several horns at his house I fell in love with a Yamaha 697Z.  Tiny Bore, but very open blowing and LOUD!

Quote from: chompernuts on Apr 29, 2008, 10:27AMI fell in love with a Yamaha 697Z.  Tiny Bore, but very open blowing and LOUD!

I found the same. My primary was and is the Conn 88 in .525/.547 and I thought it was ringing and singing pretty well. My 697Z really barks, without rattling. In places where I want to punch the phrases out, I have to hold 'er back a skosh or I'll hurt somebody.  The Z is very expressive.

Shires Bonezilla slide, .578/.590, square crook, straight gooseneck, 10 1/2in bell.

And a Schilke 61.

A good beginner horn.

I'm all for my 3B slide and Conn 5G bell, so a 3B or a 6H.

Quote from: Burgerbob on Apr 29, 2008, 12:04PMShires Bonezilla slide, .578/.590, square crook, straight gooseneck, 10 1/2in bell.

That's huge...!  Never heard of a bore as big as that

Sorry I havent replied to this topic in awhile. I have read a lot of what everyone has said. A lot of people have said the King 3B is a good choice, but isnt that more of a nonlead horn. And i guess extreme upper register isnt completely important. I just want anything up to at least a High D to not sound strained. I want a horn thats pretty free blowing, and i really love the idea (never tried on) of a lightweight slide. I know a trombone is an investment you should cherish and not be unhappy with a year down the road. Old horns do have quite an allure to them, but i guess i dont want to be playing top dollar for an old whatever. It would scare me a little to play something twice my age honestly. I dont know if this helps but i really love my conn 88ho, i wish i could find that in miniature form with a lightweight slide.

Conn 6H with acme lightweight slide...?

Don't feel like you need a specific (in this case small) horn to play high notes. Maybe if your job is playing really high for a couple hours a night it'd be a little more comfortable... but plenty of players from many different backgrounds have shown if you practice a lot a D doesn't have to sound strained.

well my D doesnt really strained at the moment i just want a horn that can definitely make the note and above sound good. i dont really have a problem hitting an F most of the time and i can squeak out up to a really high C. not that squeaks are really much but yeah. ive done a fair amount of research and for lead horns it seems like a logical choice would be a King 2B are things along those lines. I mean there is the Bach 16 LT and the Getzen and Edwards models. There is a lot to choose from. I guess thats a good thing, but where would i be able to try a large range of horns?

Quote from: jmoore88 on Jul 29, 2008, 03:14PMDon't feel like you need a specific (in this case small) horn to play high notes. Maybe if your job is playing really high for a couple hours a night it'd be a little more comfortable... but plenty of players from many different backgrounds have shown if you practice a lot a D doesn't have to sound strained.

Better still though if you find a horn which allows you to play top D unstrained without practising.
Lets be honest here. Yes obviously practice helps. I can play better for longer when I practice but it IS easier to play lots of top D's (and for longer) on my Yamaha 697Z than my Conn 88H. The Z is also much brighter, lighter and cuts through an electric rhythm section more easily.

Quote from: nickrex37 on Jul 29, 2008, 01:10PM It would scare me a little to play something twice my age honestly.
Does that mean that when you're twice as old you won't be scared to play twice as old of a horn?

Go with the sound and fix the slide.

Quote from: nickrex37 on Jul 31, 2008, 12:25AM...it seems like a logical choice would be a King 2B are things along those lines. I mean there is the Bach 16 LT and the Getzen and Edwards models. There is a lot to choose from. I guess thats a good thing, but where would i be able to try a large range of horns?

I know it's a few hours away, but Dillon Music in New Jersey might be the biggest assortment available.  Or you can see what Hickey's has in stock (only about half as far) or maybe Volkwein's in Pittsburgh?

While we say you should try a bunch of different horns, don't get so diligent that you spend the rest of your life testing and never choose something because "ooh, the next one could be better".  It might, but not by much.  If you get something and start practicing you will adapt to the horn and make it your own (unless you hate the thing, in which case you shouldn't have bought it).

Also, I would tend to buy a slightly larger horn for jazz unless you KNOW you will only be playing 1st.  You will get gigs where you might have to play any part and a .500" or .508" horn will be a little better in the lower parts.  If you only will play 1st Trombone, you may not get a lot of gigs...

Quote from: nickrex37 on Jul 31, 2008, 12:25AMwell my D doesnt really strained at the moment i just want a horn that can definitely make the note and above sound good. i dont really have a problem hitting an F most of the time and i can squeak out up to a really high C. not that squeaks are really much but yeah. ive done a fair amount of research and for lead horns it seems like a logical choice would be a King 2B are things along those lines. I mean there is the Bach 16 LT and the Getzen and Edwards models. There is a lot to choose from. I guess thats a good thing, but where would i be able to try a large range of horns?
I don't know how long you can wait for a horn, but the Eastern Trombone Workshop would be a GREAT place to try a bunch of different horns back to back.  It's kind of a long trip from PA, but you may end up with a horn you're more satisfied with in the long run, and get it for a great price.  Plus you'd get to see all of the rest of the awesome events taking place.  It's a long wait and a long trip, but it could be a good idea...