TromboneChat

On Thursday I spent about 7 hours trying horns at NAMM, including many trombones. Afterwards I put a lengthy write-up of my impressions on my website, which is viewable here. There is plenty of non-low brass content in there, but some people who couldn't get out to Anaheim might be interested in reading how I felt and whole bunch of different instruments played and stacked up. Be warned, it is a long read!

Very short version, for those who don't want to read it all:

- Yamaha YSL-835D is night and day compared to the 835 non-D and the 830. It's a fabulous horn, and was my favorite bass at the show.
- Yamaha YSL-882II (the closed wrap one, and NONE of the others) is still absolute magic. My favorite large tenor at the show.
- 2 of the 3 Rath small tenors were my favorite small tenors at the show. Don't know which models they were though, as there were no labels.
- Rath R6 is excellent, Shires Rejano is still one of the best, Courtois Creation Paris is very good.
- Rath R3F with nickel bell was my favorite .525 at the show.
- All the Y-Forts are great, including the .525 student model.
- ZO plastic trombone (with King-style curved brace) has no right to be as good as it is.
- Besson 969 Sovereign was the best euph there, followed by the Yamaha YEP-642TSII.
- Overall show winners: Yamaha, followed by Packer/Rath, Y-Fort, and ZO.

Thanks for a great write- up on your site!

Thank you! I wish I could be there one day. Much too far from my country…

Glad you like the 835D.

Is there a 825 to try? I prefer it over the 882 (all series). More open but lighter sound. But the valve is kind of tighter, thanks to that weird wrap…

I have heard since so long ago about the R6. It is strange that Rath does not list it on their website.

sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 5:37 pm Thank you! I wish I could be there one day. Much too far from my country…

Glad you like the 835D.

Is there a 825 to try? I prefer it over the 882 (all series). More open but lighter sound. But the valve is kind of tighter, thanks to that weird wrap…

I have heard since so long ago about the R6. It is strange that Rath does not list it on their website.

I wish they'd put out more info on the R6 since I've heard it's more "American" than the R4

sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 5:37 pm Thank you! I wish I could be there one day. Much too far from my country…

Glad you like the 835D.

Is there a 825 to try? I prefer it over the 882 (all series). More open but lighter sound. But the valve is kind of tighter, thanks to that weird wrap…

825 is not available in the US, I think.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 6:42 pm

sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 5:37 pm Thank you! I wish I could be there one day. Much too far from my country…

Glad you like the 835D.

Is there a 825 to try? I prefer it over the 882 (all series). More open but lighter sound. But the valve is kind of tighter, thanks to that weird wrap…

825 is not available in the US, I think.

Quite understandable… since it is a lineage of the 882V, and the sound is more of a “Japanese style” (lighter, brighter).

Meh

What an inconsiderate response.

It was a great blog and review! Thanks for taking the time to write up so many horns in such detail.

WilliamLang wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 8:12 pm What an inconsiderate response.

I'm hoping that was an opinion on the NAMM Show rather than on Finetales' report.

I honestly hadn't considered that, but would be happy to change if it were the case.

Otherwise I'm super psyched to try the Besson Euphonium line in the future! I love their old horns, and really want to see what they're up to now.

sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 5:37 pm Thank you! I wish I could be there one day. Much too far from my country…

Glad you like the 835D.

Is there a 825 to try? I prefer it over the 882 (all series). More open but lighter sound. But the valve is kind of tighter, thanks to that weird wrap…

No 825 (or 823GD) for us, sadly. I would love to try both!

WilliamLang wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 8:29 pm Otherwise I'm super psyched to try the Besson Euphonium line in the future! I love their old horns, and really want to see what they're up to now.

Every time I try the Besson line, a different model is the one with the Besson magic. This time it was the 969, while 2 years ago it was the 967. It seems that the Sovereigns have a higher batting average than the Prestiges in that regard.

Finetales wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 12:36 am No 825 (or 823GD) for us, sadly. I would love to try both!

I have tried the 823GD. I didn't like it. It sounds quite "dry" comparing to the 882II and 825. That said, I tried it with a (very large) bass trombone mouthpiece. A smaller and shallower mouthpiece should bring the horn to life, and I bet it would have a nice bright jazzy sound with a lot of zing.

Great writeup! Thanks! This is great information for all of us who for one reason or the other cannot attend.

It seems, though, like the booths for the brass makers are relatively small, and with not too much inventory on display, did it appear that way to you? Has the over all brass inventory at NAMM gotten smaller or bigger over these last years - like as if the manufacturers in total have increased or decreased their representation (so that old, longtime attendees say "Oh, this is nothing! You should have seen Conn's (or any other's) booth in '79!")?

Digidog wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:51 am It seems, though, like the booths for the brass makers are relatively small, and with not too much inventory on display, did it appear that way to you? Has the over all brass inventory at NAMM gotten smaller or bigger over these last years - like as if the manufacturers in total have increased or decreased their representation (so that old, longtime attendees say "Oh, this is nothing! You should have seen Conn's (or any other's) booth in '79!")?

The NAMM show has gotten smaller overall, but the bigger brass makers still have big booths. Yamaha and Eastman Shires always bring a ton of stuff, and this year Packer/Rath, Schilke/Greenhoe, and ZO all had a lot to try out. Buffet Crampon and Conn-Selmer had physically large booths, but not much in them. Conn-Selmer in particular has disappointed in their selection since NAMM 2020, where their booth was huge.

But the tradeoff is that you get booths from dozens of brands you've never heard of, who are trying to establish a business foothold in the United States. After all, the NAMM show isn't really for consumers, it's for trade. Us players being able to show up and try instruments (and even sometimes buy them straight from the booth, as I did with my Y-Fort in 2023) is just a nice bonus.

Finetales wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:58 am

Digidog wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:51 am It seems, though, like the booths for the brass makers are relatively small, and with not too much inventory on display, did it appear that way to you? Has the over all brass inventory at NAMM gotten smaller or bigger over these last years - like as if the manufacturers in total have increased or decreased their representation (so that old, longtime attendees say "Oh, this is nothing! You should have seen Conn's (or any other's) booth in '79!")?

The NAMM show has gotten smaller overall, but the bigger brass makers still have big booths. Yamaha and Eastman Shires always bring a ton of stuff, and this year Packer/Rath, Schilke/Greenhoe, and ZO all had a lot to try out. Buffet Crampon and Conn-Selmer had physically large booths, but not much in them. Conn-Selmer in particular has disappointed in their selection since NAMM 2020, where their booth was huge.

But the tradeoff is that you get booths from dozens of brands you've never heard of, who are trying to establish a business foothold in the United States. After all, the NAMM show isn't really for consumers, it's for trade. Us players being able to show up and try instruments (and even sometimes buy them straight from the booth, as I did with my Y-Fort in 2023) is just a nice bonus.

Many legacy manufacturers are reconsidering going to the NAMM. Rickenbacker, the iconic inventor and manufacturer of electric guitars, decided it wasn’t worth the expense to set up a display anymore. And they are literally down the block from the convention in Anaheim. There are simply better ways to reach retailers and customers nowadays.

Great report Tiffany. NAMM was a blast! It was a lot of fun testing those wild marching designs with you.

I’m with you on most of what you wrote, but here’s more to add:

The ICON valve from Courtois was my favorite at the show. The R6 valve felt similar in blow, but this particular one could’ve used more lubricant. Still, a fantastic trombone.

The 835D was hands-down my favorite bass. That said, I preferred the 882O over the 882 closed wrap. Overall, I still think the GOR I tried at the atelier in December stands out as my top choice for Yamaha .547.

The Shires vintage Elkhart bass didn’t connect with me, unfortunately. On the other hand, the Mike Davis + surprised me. It topped my Yamaha in a lot of ways.

Greenhoe brought some excellent instruments. The build quality feels more solid compared to a couple of years ago. Slight changes, but noticeable to someone familiar with their offerings. Definitely a contender.

Yamaha and Rath had the best overall quality. Rath had the best small bores and the R3F was money. Also liked the 00 series. The new R300F that is coming out should scratch the pro .525 itch for those looking for a 36 alternative. Courtois, Shires, and Greenhoe weren’t far behind, but Y-Fort holds third for me (and is less than half the cost of all these).

Most of the .547s shared similar designs and played similarly—it really came down to comfort and valve feel. Courtois Creation stood out as my favorite, though Y-Fort is right up there.

The daCarbo Change Maker (.500, 7.75) completely shifted my opinion. I wasn’t a fan before, but now I’m a convert. Super light, incredibly resonant, and surprisingly affordable for carbon fiber. If you need something lightweight and responsive, this is the one.

And here’s the controversial take: Chinese manufacturing is outperforming the American legacy brands, no question. That said, the Peter Steiner Bach was solid—nice horn, but way overpriced.

I also saw some incredible Chinese manufacturers making stylish screw bell cases and MB-style cases for around $100. Can’t remember the name right now, but I’ll dig up the rep’s card.

RJMason wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:43 pm The new R300F that is coming out should scratch the pro .525 itch for those looking for a 36 alternative.

I hadn't heard about this, that's very intriguing! I've liked all the 00s I've tried, I'm sure the R300 would be no exception.

And here’s the controversial take: Chinese manufacturing is outperforming the American legacy brands, no question. That said, the Peter Steiner Bach was solid—nice horn, but way overpriced.

Agreed.

I also saw some incredible Chinese manufacturers making stylish screw bell cases and MB-style cases for around $100. Can’t remember the name right now, but I’ll dig up the rep’s card.

I missed those, would love to know the maker names! Having more affordable, yet nice cases would be stellar. I know I saw somewhere recently that Y-Fort has begun selling their great cases separately, in all black without the Y-Fort branding.

Thanks for this folks. Lots of good news in the trombone world.

I read your blog, Tiffany, and I felt like I was almost there along with you at the show. Thank you--I thoroughly enjoy your opinions.

Yeah great write up, thanks for taking the time and effort for the benefit of those of us who can't make it!