TromboneChat

Anyone play one of these? Comparison to the 500 bore model? Horn Guys doesn't seem to have a great stock of the F attachment models. Where else supplies US?

In the big picture, I have great respect for K&H. They make some fantastic instruments and I have the Slokar alto and tenor.
But those BvL horns are just strange, the ones I have tried in all sizes really didn't play well at all, at least for me. I did a major adjustment on one .500, replacing the gooseneck and small side of the tuning slide (I just mentioned that in another thread) and it was a big improvement. I think there are some big design flaws. I'd be interested to hear about other examples if anybody plays one.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 8:36 pm In the big picture, I have great respect for K&H. They make some fantastic instruments and I have the Slokar alto and tenor.
But those BvL horns are just strange, the ones I have tried in all sizes really didn't play well at all, at least for me. I did a major adjustment on one .500, replacing the gooseneck and small side of the tuning slide (I just mentioned that in another thread) and it was a big improvement. I think there are some big design flaws. I'd be interested to hear about other examples if anybody plays one.

Ah, thanks. I knew you had a K&H and spoke highly of it, but ive never heard anyone mention these other models. Thx for the observations.

I briefly played a .500 horn. Besides some slide positions being different than what I was used to I thought it played really well. Never gigged on one though. I’ve been eyeing the 512F for a long time as I think it would check a lot of boxes for me in terms of specs. But until I get a chance to try a 512 I won’t order one.

Well, I think they are hard to find in L.A. or even California...

If the curiosity is lasting: At least one could make use of the wordwide shipping and the 30 Days Money Back offered by Thomann:

https://www.thomannmusic.com/kuehnl_hoy ... .512_f.htm
https://www.thomannmusic.com/helpdesk_moneyback.html

Yes, you pay for the instrument first, yet you have a 30 days period for intensely checking out the instrument. In case it not suit you: return and get your money back.

Hello everyone! My first comment here. Long time fan of this forum. Decided to comment since few months ago I travelled to Markt Erlbach in Germany, to Kühnl & Hoyer's show room! Got to spend a wonderful day there. If I have the energy I might make a detailed post about the trip here.

I tested all the trombones they had in stock there. The Bart van Lier-trombones were wonderful, if a bit uneven at times. I settled on the .480/88 van Lier MK II-model, since it had a brilliance and great colors, while being suprisingly open while being such a small trombone. A truly wonderful instrument and it felt very natural to hold while playing. After playing a single note I just started laughing, how good playing the instrument felt!

The .500 was a great trombone. Still, tonally I felt I could control my playing a bit more more on the .480/88. I play lead trombone in a concert band in Helsinki, where often the material we play is very big band-like so choosing the smaller instrument felt like the right decision. But for playing in different type of ensemble I'm sure the .500 would work well, if not even better.

.512 had a beautiful center to the sound. Very open trombone. Would definitely recommend for a 2nd chair in a big band.

Playing the .512 F trombone with the valve for some reason I felt that the sound was a bit too bright for my needs. The valve worked nicely, but I could not help shake the feeling that the trombone sounded better without the valve. Some how the instrument resonated very differently to the similar model without the valve. I would recommend testing (as always one should) the instrument before purchasing! There was nothing wrong in the instrument per se, I just thought that playing the .512 without the F-valve felt more natural and the sound had a slightly better quality to it.

If one wants a small or medium bore trombone with a valve, I recommend the K&H .527" with F-valve.

https://www.kuehnl-hoyer.de/en/produkt/ ... mbone-527/

A wonderful instrument, can fit any style, can play any register and dynamic. I got one for my section. The lovely people working at Kühnl switched the grip brace from straight to a curved one out of my request. It feels perfect to hold and play. The price/quality-ratio on this trombone is ridiculous!

Also I would like to show love to their Wogwam-model "Edith". Crazy beautiful sound. The slide positions are in a bit unorthodox locations so that's why I went with the .527-one, but I am sure with time, playing this trombone would feel completely natural. A wonderful instrument I haven't stopped thinking since I returned home from there!

If you are ever in Germany, definitely would recommend visiting Markt Erlbach. The staff is friendly and they know their stuff. Nürnberg is close and it is a nice city. Less than 30 min by a car.

I would love to try the .527 and the Wogram.
I tried my Slokar bell with a Bach 36 slide, not actually compatible tenons but it played really great. I wish they offered that as an option but I guess the .527 would be close to the same thing.

You can't beat the ergonomics with that Slokar grip and that's a big priority for me.

How would one of these BvLs compare to a Rath R1 or R2?

Can’t say. I’ve only played or tested Rath large bore tenor and bass trombones.

I once owned a .527 GF and play tested a .512 F some months ago. And I own a Rath R100 and played a R2. Overall I experienced the K&H as playing almost on 'autopilot', they had an incredible easyness in the playing. The Raths are close to this yet with quite another sound. A little more core in the tone. The K&H: silk and velvet.

I experienced the K&H build quality as superior, flawless.

If anyone decides to buy a 512F, I can highly recommend the gold brass bell version with ultralight nickel silver outer slide. I had the straight version of this horn at the 2013 ITF, alongside the standard 512 straight horn with yellow brass bell with standard yellow brass outer slide, and literally everyone who compared them preferred the gold brass/nickel silver combo by a wide margin. Weighing in at a mere 168 grams, this ultralight outer is still the lightest tenor outer on the "Outer slide weight" thread: https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... igh#p98593 .
It likes Slide-O-Mix and really nothing else.

Also, you're gonna need the F-attachment because there is no usable 7th position on that horn, an issue I describe in this thread: https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... 4&start=50 . Maybe one could convince K&H to build the slide with the modifications I suggest in that post so the horn would actually have a usable seventh position.

FWIW I sold the 512 GLT to a player in Glendale, who still owns it, so there is an example in the LA area. PM me for his contact info.

Finally got to play the K&H .512 trombone (straight horn, with a screw bell collar) after wondering for years. My opinions, take:

Has a very nice sound, warm and round but capable of being punchy. Pretty easy to play once you get flowing on it. Slide is wide, almost Bach 36 width, but not quite. The slide on the example I played was not great, needed an alignment and proper set up. Can confirm it doesn’t really have a great 7th position, maybe better if you are riding high on the pitch or pull the tuning slide out. Slide positions are a little different. Felt like I needed more time on the horn, but wasn’t getting the core I’m normally after. I really loved how the release of notes felt and sounded.

I think if one selected it as their main horn one could really grow and develop on it. But I switch horns too much, so not gonna spend the time learning a new philosophy, even if it sounds and feels like a rewarding one. I don’t think it would do extremely well on loud pop gigs, but expressive small group or chamber stuff? Prob have a lot of fun!

I’d pick a Rath R2 with 8 inch bell over this horn if I had the choice.

For what it’s worth, I also played a .500 and thought that horn performed a lot more in line with what I was used to. 7th position was better. If I had to pick a BVL it would probably be that one.

I'm a little discouraged on the new small bore w/F front. This K&M sounds a little more strange than I typically tolerate (got rid of a very nice Courtois for having odd positions). Then I priced out a Rath R2, and it was over $5k. I was willing to go $4k, but 5 is just more than I can justify, and finding these used isn't working out.

I guess I'm back to adding a valve to a classic I've already got, probably the 48h or the 3508. I've got a call into Sweeney.