TromboneChat

Have you ever quit, or considered quitting, a band/orchestra/ensemble? What was it, when, why, and how did you go about quitting?

I got hired to play with a funk/soul/rock band that is peopled by folks who used to play with bands like Tower of Power, Cold Blood, Aretha Franklin, etc. I thought it would be cool, in in many ways it is. Good band. But the vibe is so not me. Gigs are fun, but rehearsals suck. It's way too loud. Between tunes people are always playing and noodling, and yelling at each other over the mics. (Why? We're in a small room? You can't freakin' talk to people without screaming over the PA?) It's constant cacophony. And the rehearsals start an hour late and go an hour past the end time, then they all want to hang out. I'm "get there early, leave on time" kind of musician. I'm not built for the garage band experience, especially at my age.

I haven't quit yet, but I want to. Yet I have a hard time saying no. Give me the benefit of your experience and wisdom. Tell me your stories.

I've quit or considered quitting for any of the following reasons:

1. The musicians in the band are awful and it's not fun to play with them. (I've played with awful bands where it was fun to play with them.)
2. The music is uninteresting, or well below my level of playing.
3. I didn't get along with the other musicians (this is not a common problem).

Most of my gigs are unpaid and I don't feel any obligation to continue. If there is a performance upcoming, I will not quit and leave them in the lurch.

I've quit a couple of paid gigs for similar reasons. The vibe/book/attitudes of the band were not me. The first one was a military band. I had to finish my commitment, and then just didn't re-up. At that point I vowed I'd only play in situations that I enjoyed. I changed professions to engineering. By not playing for a living anymore, I could afford to make that kind of decision. I didn't want to wind up resenting music, so I wasn't going to play Eye Of The Tiger every gig anymore.

The second band I quit was 30 years later. It was a semi-pro pretty good local big band. But the leadership changed, and now the bass player was in charge, and he constantly lectures about volume, but the loudest instrument in the band BY FAR was of course the electric bass. There was a lot of bad blood in the band, and it was becoming exactly the thing that drove me out of music so long ago, so I just told them one gig was my last. I was over committed and had to make choices.

But yeah, band vibe can really kill things.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:49 pm I've quit a couple of paid gigs for similar reasons. The vibe/book/attitudes of the band were not me. The first one was a military band. I had to finish my commitment, and then just didn't re-up. At that point I vowed I'd only play in situations that I enjoyed. I changed professions to engineering. By not playing for a living anymore, I could afford to make that kind of decision. I didn't want to wind up resenting music, so I wasn't going to play Eye Of The Tiger every gig anymore.

The second band I quit was 30 years later. It was a semi-pro pretty good local big band. But the leadership changed, and now the bass player was in charge, and he constantly lectures about volume, but the loudest instrument in the band BY FAR was of course the electric bass. There was a lot of bad blood in the band, and it was becoming exactly the thing that drove me out of music so long ago, so I just told them one gig was my last. I was over committed and had to make choices.

But yeah, band vibe can really kill things.

Your post speaks to me. lol.

I, too, did not vibe in the military. I quit after my initial commitment. I have no idea how guys like Doug and Harry deal with that culture long term. It didn't help my situation that I was an egalitarian in the ultimate authoritarian culture. Even today I bridle at conductors and divas who think they are more important than the rest of us. I'm just not built for that vibe, I guess.

Also, I ended up getting jaded and quitting music for 30 years, and part of the reason I'm thinking of quitting this band is so I don't start hating the music business again.

Yeah, I quit a band in Colorado run by a crook who stopped paying what he promised. He was actually taking advantage of military musicians (who could play) and paying more to his friends, who were ringers (some of whom could not play), trying to get his brass band off the ground.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2024 3:04 pm Yeah, I quit a band in Colorado run by a crook who stopped paying what he promised. He was actually taking advantage of military musicians (who could play) and paying more to his friends, who were ringers (and many of whom could not play)

Yeah, not getting paid what you're promised makes it an easy decision. Sorry that happened to you. I know a guy who will rectify that situation for $300 cash left in a paper bag in a bus station locker.

Rock/pop cover bands that are filled with good friends, but who don't really have a concept of volume control or punctuality, aren't uncommon. I have seen a couple over the years, but have never been a regular member of one. I am of a similar opinion: it's fun to spot-fill for a gig and one rehearsal (maybe, it depends on what they're playing - often, I don't need any rehearsal if they have decently written horn parts) but I'm not interested in being a regular member of such a band.

I think there is nothing wrong with citing your specific reasons as a reason for bowing out: "I need to protect my hearing and you're always too loud" or "I need more time with my family and your rehearsals always take way too long".

tbdana wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2024 3:06 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2024 3:04 pm Yeah, I quit a band in Colorado run by a crook who stopped paying what he promised. He was actually taking advantage of military musicians (who could play) and paying more to his friends, who were ringers (and many of whom could not play)

Yeah, not getting paid what you're promised makes it an easy decision. Sorry that happened to you. I know a guy who will rectify that situation for $300 cash left in a paper bag in a bus station locker.

That's pretty low! But also more than I got stiffed, so... I will not use their service.

Quitting communities (bands) can be difficult. I used to grit my teeth and stick it out in unpleasant situations

This is not the way to live your life if it can be avoided.

Before I join an ensemble, I set my conditions for quitting. I have to note that as a volunteer musician, it is a lot easier for me to bounce out of an ensemble than it would be if it was a paid gig.

My whole point of trombone is to have fun with my music and meet like minded people. If a band does not help me meet this goal, I try to leave sooner rather than later.

tbdana wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2024 1:42 pm I haven't quit yet, but I want to. Yet I have a hard time saying no. Give me the benefit of your experience and wisdom. Tell me your stories.

Dana,

I have left a couple of groups (only two, as I recall), not out of animosity, but when it stopped being enough fun to be worth my time.

My suggestion: At your next rehearsal, smile and let your bandmates know, in a friendly manner, that you've enjoyed playing with them but that you'll be moving on. They'll push you to tell them why, but you owe them no detailed explanation, even though some of them may be your friends. Perhaps you can give them a recommendation for another trombonist as you walk out the door, saying "Let's keep in touch."

Good luck!

It's a bit off topic, but since the topic of military bands did come up, it might be important to make a distinction between the Special Bands each branch has, like the Airmen of Note or Pershing's Own (that Doug and Harry (Watters) were a part of) and the Division, overseas, and Regional Bands. My career has been in Division and overseas Army Bands, and sometimes the military day to day does get to me but for the vast majority of my career it has been great music, particularly in the overseas bands. I think the Special Bands have a lot less of the military day to day to deal with, but it's not zero either. They have PT tests and weight restrictions, etc, too. I can't speak to Doug's experience in the Airmen, but I don't think the Special Bands are really too authoritarian.

I do well mentally with the job because every other assignment has been some unique place overseas for me, and I actively seek those assignments out. Japan and Korea (Alaska also counts as overseas!) were absolutely fantastic times in my life.

chouston3 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2024 4:23 pm Quitting communities (bands) can be difficult.

Well, if it's a struggle with yourself. Or if you've overtly made a commitment of some sort. Otherwise, life is too short to endure the self-torture. I've quit and returned to the same couple of bands several times (and for several different reasons) -- in ways that didn't result in any hurt feelings. It's often the case that the people you're quitting from really won't care much (if at all), or will just wish you well with your change.

I used to grit my teeth and stick it out in unpleasant situations

I repeat: Life is too short.

If a band does not help me meet this goal, I try to leave sooner rather than later.

There you go. Sometimes, if your goal is to help the band be better by providing a sound foundation in one of the sections, some degree of suffering and teeth-gritting may be necessary and tolerable.

I had hoped to join a local orchestra for years and, after years of subbing, finally got the invite a couple of years ago. But this fall I stepped away.

The main reason was the driving. Too much time on the road in traffic. Usually an hour or so each way depending on the tunnel and the bridge. It’s a very good orchestra but that meant I never felt really confident in my playing. So I found it pretty stressful. And, by and large, orchestral playing is just not much fun. Counting, no margin of error. Some memorable moments to be sure: VW’s London Symph, Shostakovich 5, and Symphonie Fantastique come to mind. But I also totally cacked some Holst last spring. Memorable for the wrong reasons.

One group I quit started as a bunch of players at a recurring jam session who invited me to play a gig. After that gig they wanted to become a smooth jazz ensemble and rehearse 3 hours a week. I had to tell them that those plans didn’t fit my life at that moment.

The second group I quit was a big band I had been in for several years. When my older boy began to display more challenging behaviours related to his developmental differences, I had to choose to stay home more at night and support my wife. The band, mostly dads, understood and supported that move.

The third group I quit was my actual trombone job back in the day. Even though nothing makes me feel as good in the moment as playing the trombone, I have always most valued stability, predictability and financial comfort as a lifestyle. Playing in a regional orchestra that fought to stay afloat each year was not going to be a long range plan for me and it was clear that I wasn’t going to win another audition any time soon. I resigned after a year’s leave to go back to school to become a teacher as my wife had a year before.

I did quit a group in high school for angst reasons. It was an all city band. We were bashing through super hard repertoire each week, sounding really bad and there were no plans for concerts. I quit because it was no fun and soon after that the conductor of the group folded it up.

I left a funk band I played in for a few years when I moved to Los Angeles. I gave them a year's notice of my plans and we did a big farewell show. The rest of the band originally planned to move out to LA with me and continue, but they got cold feet and stayed.

I also soft-quit a band here in LA by saying no to more and more of their gigs. The gigs always paid a comically low amount for the work - the bandleader insisted on multiple long rehearsals in inconvenient locations for a $100 gig. And the rehearsals were long because he ran them badly and always hired his friends (not professional musicians, or even good amateurs) to play in the rhythm section. I put up with it for awhile, but eventually I stopped saying yes. I think the turning point was when I said no to the band's big annual Palm Springs date (a whopping $150 for driving 3+ hours). Never got called again after that!

There was a gig in Kansas where they wanted to pay $150 for alto trombone on an hour+ long piece, multiple rehearsals, and it would have been 12 hours total of driving. Noooope

I should have quit the Brazilian gig where the guy wanted me to transcribe my own parts off a really crappy cassette tape for a couple hundred bucks. Fortunately after the first rehearsal when no one could do anything a guy with those skills made a side deal to write all the music.

After the gig he and his buddies kept all the charts and hired their own rhythm players to do Latin gigs themselves.

One of the groups I quit (out of 2? 3?) was a quintet I’d played in for about 12 years. It was a personality conflict. We were all respectful, and were all willing to put forth new and different ideas… until one of the trumpet players left. The new player was less of a team player, and often took up too much rehearsal time with jokes, anecdotes, not-so-good-natured ribbing of other players, etc.

The last straw for me was when we were playing a corporate Xmas party. For the second set, I kicked a tune off at the tempo we’d rehearsed, played the first few bars, and then the trumpet player part came in at a much faster tempo. After the gig (and after I’d calmed down a bit) I asked them why. “I just thought it would sound better at a faster tempo.” When I mentioned that good ensemble playing implies playing in the same tempo, similar articulation (unless marked), listening to each other, their response was something like, “Yeah, I know. I just like it faster.”

I thought about it for a few days, and then had lunch and a few beers with the tuba player (leader). I said I didn’t want to be in a group where one of us wasn’t a team player. I’d considered saying, “If he stays, I go,” but thought better of it: ultimatums are just bad form. I suggested a good replacement, which wasn’t honored.

That was a hard decision, even though I know it was right.

A few spring to mind.

The first, a latin gig. Fresh out of college, my naive self turned up early for the stated 11pm start. The rest of the band didn't arrive until gone midnight and the gig itself didn't even get started until 3am. Never again.

I also managed to quit a band before even starting once. There is/was an infamous function band leader, known for getting in literal fights with bandmembers and being just a general all-round dick. He phoned to see if I could do a gig once and I found myself saying "no thanks, I've heard the stories". Funnily enough, he never called again.

I am actually considering it now. The people in the band are really nice, but the leader is not doing a good job, and almost everything sounds horrible. It really, really bothers me, since it could be much better. But no one else has said anything about it, so I guess they think it´s ok, and in that case it should be me leaving.

Sometimes it's not one big thing that prompts someone to leave a band, but a realization that there's no longer (or never really was) a good reason to stay.

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 10:42 am Sometimes it's not one big thing that prompts someone to leave a band, but a realization that there's no longer (or never really was) a good reason to stay.

Ah! Nice post. Begs the question what the priority ought to be, having a reason to stay or having a reason to leave.

tbdana wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 10:45 am

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 10:42 am Sometimes it's not one big thing that prompts someone to leave a band, but a realization that there's no longer (or never really was) a good reason to stay.

Ah! Nice post. Begs the question what the priority ought to be, having a reason to stay or having a reason to leave.

I've quit (unpaid) groups for different reasons.
One brass choir relocated from 5 minutes away to an hour away. Not worth the gas. And there were unchallenging groups with weak trombone sections that had never heard of listening and following the lead player (me) plus my schedule had become overcommitted. I've politely declined to join many more groups than I've quit.