TromboneChat

Hi everyone

I'm new here and this is my first post. I hope some people can give me some pointers.

I'm a complete beginner. I hope it's ok posting here. I can't see any forum group for complete beginners.

I have previously played the tenor horn in British brass bands.

I have never before played a trombone. I'm a woman of 63 years old and very small build. I don't find the trombone heavy, but the playing position/balance is not like anything I've previously played.

I was given the tenor Bb/F trombone on Monday. It is now Wednesday. The trombone is so old and dilapidated that the make is no longer visible and the mouthpiece has no size or mark. I have measured the bore and concluded that it is a wide bore.

I was given a brief introductory lesson with the band master who has told me to concentrate on position 1 and 2.

In first position, I'm ok from the bottom Bb (si bemol) to the D (re) above the staff. In second position, I'm ok from the bottom A (la) to the C (do) above the staff. I can only get a squeak out in anything higher either position. The exercises he's given me go up to F (fa) in first position and up to E (mi) in second. Is this too much to expect from me in my first week or am I just being a wimp?

Also, I'm finding it difficult to find the right position to hold the trombone so that I can also read the music. I'm playing standing at the mo to give my diaphragm it's best option. I have the instrument to the left of the stand but I can't see the music from this position.

I hope all you who have been where I am can come up with some guidance.

Thanks

There a big difference between an Eb tenorhorn and a large bore Bb/F trombone. Holding it can definitely be a challenge, and quite uncomfortable at first. You may need to experiment with hand positions and don't assume there's only one "correct" way to hold it, especially if you have small hands.

Start your practice every time on middle Bb (top of the bass clef staff) so that becomes your "middle." If you start on low Bb, everything else seems "high."

Also experiment with the angle at which the bell and slide sections are assembled together. Smaller hands often do well with a smaller (more acute angle). Don't be fooled into thinking it must be 90 degrees.

A Bb/F tenor is heavy. If I take a few weeks off, I can barely hold the thing myself. It''s weightlifting. Day-to-day consistent practice will build arm strength.

I'm not a teacher, but topping out at D sounds pretty reasonable to me, for a beginner.

Hold the horn in playing position, decide where you want the sheet music to be, then adjust the stand to put it there. The stand doesn't have to be at the same height as when you played tenor horn.

I'm a 68-year old woman, though I'm not built small like you. Good pointers so far, but I want to offer a couple other things.

First this is the forum for you! You've come to the right place. Absolute beginners are welcome, and you'll get lots of assistance.

Second, what helps me a lot in holding the Bb/F tenor trombone is a trombone grip, where all I have to do is put my hand in the grip and it holds the horn up for me. I use the Neotech grip.

https://www.amazon.com/Neotech-5131001- ... _0_17_pr_t.

It looks like this on my horns (see the closest and middle trombones in the photo):


So all I have to do is stick my hand in the hole there, and the trombone just rests there. No holding any weight or dealing with awkward grips. Note that there are lots of other grips available, so if that one doesn't work for you, something will.

Third, your range is exactly what I'd expect for a complete newbie in her 60s. Don't worry about it right now. It takes time and work. But Doug is right that you should always start on the middle (or "tuning") Bb, not the low Bb. Your range will improve with time and experimentation. Not only do you have to figure out embouchure, you also have to develop the muscles accordingly. You'll get it.

Fourth, as for reading the music it sounds like you're doing it right, so I'm not sure why you're having a problem. I position the "pole" of the music stand just to the right of where my slide goes, so that my slide moves back and forth just to the left of the "pole," and below the part of the stand that is holding the music. That puts the music on the left side of the stand right in front of my eyes. Are you trying to put your slide over the top of the stand/music? Don't. Put it below.

I think it's great that you are undertaking this adventure! I know it can be frustrating, but just take it slowly. It's great that you got an introductory lesson from the bandmaster, but it's worth it to see if you can find a private teacher. A teacher can get you going the right way from the start, and you can ask lots of questions of someone with expertise. There are lessons available online if you can do Zoom or Skype. Keep going! You'll find you improve pretty quickly after a brief introductory period.

P.S. About your geriatric trombone. If it works well, that's great. If for any reason you decide you need another one, I'd first decide if I really needed that F-attachment that adds a lot of weight to the horn. You really only need it for notes below low "E" in 7th position. There aren't many times (if any) that you will need those notes. A straight horn without the F-attachment would be lighter and much easier to hold. And frankly, I've been playing professionally for a very long time and I rarely ever need that F-attachment. Also, smaller bore horns will be lighter and easier to play to play from an air standpoint.

I always thought it would be great to convert from trombone to French horn. At 67, I thought I was too old. Maybe not! Regardless, you are an inspiration to us all.

I too may qualify as a complete beginner; having given up after 1-2 years playing in grade school, and at fourscore years and ten, I’m only young at heart. Starting at this point in life probably adds a bit to the challenge. I don’t recall as a kid feeling that the instrument was particularly difficult to play, but now… it sure isn’t easy!

I had not yet received the advice to start from middle Bb, but will start doing so. Thanks for that suggestion.

I too am finding reading music while holding the trombone problematic. I wear progressive lens glasses, and the zone for close focus reading is rather small. I intend to try a set of single vision reading glasses and hope that will make it easier to focus on sheet music while playing. I’ll work on positioning too.

Philonius wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 7:47 pm I wear progressive lens glasses, and the zone for close focus reading is rather small. I intend to try a set of single vision reading glasses and hope that will make it easier to focus on sheet music while playing. I’ll work on positioning too.

Yes. Special glasses for music were a game changer for me. I'm lucky enough that the dollar store ones work (after my cataract surgery) so I can have a pair in every case. I just bought one of every diopter and tried them all until I found one.

Philonius wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 7:47 pm … and at fourscore years and ten, I’m only young at heart.

Gettysburg reference aside, make that threescore and ten. : )

Philonius wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 7:47 pm I too am finding reading music while holding the trombone problematic. I wear progressive lens glasses, and the zone for close focus reading is rather small. I intend to try a set of single vision reading glasses and hope that will make it easier to focus on sheet music while playing. I’ll work on positioning too.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that aspect. As I'm three score and eight years old with progressive lenses, I had to have single vision music reading glasses made for me. Regular reading glasses didn't do the trick. I had to get middle distance glasses to read music. Now I have no excuses.

Hi all .
Hi Malagachris !

Welcome to the trombone world .

First of all , I will suggest to you not to be too critical about your immediate improvements , and not to set too precise targets .

Of course , to me would be very useful to take lessons from a trbn teacher in person .
Anyway , I would like to give some suggestions.

As Doug Elliott wrote above , starting from the middle Bb is the best way , in my opinion too.
You can play from this tone going down to the F and the low Bb , and you can play up to the D above the staff.

So , you can play these 4 notes in different contexts : sustained ; slurred ; articolated .
For example , a sustained tone can be a 4/4 long note ; a slurred can be 2 half notes (middle Bb /F ; F/low Bb ; etc) slurred togheter ; articolated can be 4 quarter notes on the same pitch, tongued .

I would suggest to play in 1st , 2nd , and 3rd position also .
Then , in 3 or 4 weeks , you can add the 4th position ( that will allow to you to play your' s first tune , "When the Saints go marchin ' in" , in the key of F ) .

I think that a beginner , at least for some months , could practice without reading any score at all . You have to practice same very easy patterns , so you can memorize it very quickly . Without the paper , one can be more focused on forming a proper embouchure , breathing , listening to the sound , etc.

For example , an exercise for sustained notes could be the follow :

play a 4/4 medium Bb ; rest 4/4 ; play a 4/4 F ; rest 4/4 ; play a 4/4 medium Bb ; rest 4/4 ; play a 4/4 D above the staff ; rest 4/4 ; play a 4/4 medium Bb ; rest 4/4 ; play a 4/4 F ; rest 4/4 ; play a 4/4 low Bb . Then you play the same sequence in 2nd position ( the tones will be half- step down) , etc .
You can apply this play/ rest combination to the slurred and to the articolated exercises also .

In my opinion , it is very important to learn the names of the overtones series in ALL the positions , at least for the first 5 notes : 1st pos) Bb , F Bb , D , F ; 2nd pos) A , E , A C#, E ; ................; 7th pos ) E , B , E , G# ,B .

About the horn , I agree with Tbdana ; a straight tenor trbn , medium or small bore , could be better .
Also , a good medium prized mpc ( Bach , Wick , Yamaha , ecc ) .

I hope you will enjoy playing the trbn every day , more and more !

Regards
Giancarlo

Locate a great teacher, and take lessons.

GGJazz wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:09 am About the horn , I agree with Tbdana ; a straigth tenor trbn , medium or small bore , could be better

Some people of small stature, who can't reach 7th position, insist that the f-attachment is mandatory. I suppose it may depend on whether you exclusively play lead or not. But that sort of specialization is years away for a complete beginner.

malagachris wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 2:25 pm very small build

Hi all.

@AtomicClock : well , we do not know if MalagaChris can reach the 7th position . Same people are short , but with enough long arms .

Anyway , precisely because she is "very small build" , to me would be better a lighter straight trbn .

If one do not reach the 7th position , basically miss two notes : the low E and the B in the staff.
I think that an heavy big instrument with F valve can cause bigger problems than this , expecially to a beginner player : it will lead to a wrong posture , thus hindering to a correct breathing . Furthermore , there will be tension in the left hand , which will be transmitted to the embouchure itself.
These things are worse than you can' t play two notes...

When a player is more mature , then he can take a horn with the F valve , in my opinion .

Regards
Giancarlo