TromboneChat

What can I clean my horn with that is not going to damage it?

What should I absolutely avoid?

Definitely avoid? Mineral acids like hydrochloric, sulfuric, nitric, muriatic, etc. Weaker acids like oxalic or acetic can be used but still should be well rinsed.

Don't use abrasive cleaners on your horn; they will wear through the metal. One time cleanings may be OK, but constant use of such materials will get you in the long run. As was mentioned in another thread, don't use ammonia based cleaners on brass instruments -- it will even penetrate lacquer.

If you are really not sure what to use, find a lacquer cleaner I got some King stuff that was 50 years old and used it a couple of times.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 5:24 pm As was mentioned in another thread, don't use ammonia based cleaners on brass instruments -- it will even penetrate lacquer.

I recall hearing this before, but I didn't know why. There was some good information in that other thread:

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 5:57 pm Ammonia induces micro stress fractures in brass. I know Conn-Selmer will not allow "any" chemical in their plant that includes ammonia in its ingredients

Many of the commonly available brass polishes are ammonia-based. I knew about the lacquer issue, but for unlacquered instruments, it wasn't even on my radar to avoid ammonia... it sure is now! I'm looking for good ammonia-free products to use. Does anyone know if Rolite brass/copper polish contains ammonia? I couldn't find an MSDS or ingredients list on their site to confirm one way or another, so I reached out via their contact form. I'd be interested in hearing what everyone uses instead. Hope's was also mentioned on the other thread.

They use Rolite to polish the inside of slide tubes in the Getzen shop. Can't tell you what's in it.

For bare brass, there is a product called Miracle Cloth, which has citrus oils and waxes in it. It works quite well for shining up bare brass. It also protects and slows down tarnish.

I use Eagle One Nanowax spray wax (nano-sized carnauba wax particles that fill microscratches and provide shine and water repellency). Purchased at auto parts store - originally formulated for auto finishes, but recommended by my cabinet maker - for cabinet and furniture protection. It works great on these wood surfaces. Supposedly will also keep glass shower doors spot-free.

I have used it as a protective spray on my trombones' exterior lacquered (or unlacquered) surfaces. Seems to work well; no visible harm. Surfaces look great. But the product may no longer be marketed. [Problems with nano-particles? ]

chouston3 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:53 pm What can I clean my horn with that is not going to damage it?

One simple answer: Blue Dawn dish detergent.

You can branch out from there as you gain experience and some knowledge about cleaning agents and their effects on brass (a la the other comments here). But Dawn is pretty much the bottom line gold standard.

My current cleaners are:

Dawn dish detergent
Rubbing alcohol
Simple green
Hopes brass polish

Anything alarming in that list?

My list of harmful cleaners include:

Anything with ammonia (stress fractures)
Hydrogen peroxide (takes zinc out of brass)

^
Yeah, that's my list except for the brass polish. Love the Simple Green.

chouston3 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:49 am My current cleaners are:
…
Rubbing alcohol
…

What’s the rubbing alcohol for?

It's a good solvent for some things, and I often use it as a quick swab for my slide in between thorough cleanings. But another primary use of it is as a desiccant. After I clean something with water (including a trombone slide or a black powder gun barrel), I'll use 90% isopropyl alcohol in it to remove residual water before I store it.

This, if you can find it. I found it at Dollar Tree several months back, but have not seen it recently.
I know it doesn't specifically say brass, but it works really well. I find it as effective as Wright's to polish the inside of the outers, and it is a little easier to use - I wet the polishing cloth first, otherwise it may be too abrasive.
It also works great to polish tuning slides. I haven't tried it, but I would think that it will remove tarnish on an unlaquered horn without scratching it.
And - NO AMMONIA!

There are some funny things in that description. For example, what is Koolin? I suspect this is a misprint for Kaolin -- in which case that would be the "abrasive" that's referred to. I don't think I'd want even a "mild abrasive" in a general cleaner. Detergents (in general, without additives) don't contain abrasives; and neither Dawn detergent nor Simple Green are abrasive. Otherwise, the only cleaning substances in it appear to be the hydroxyethylcellulose and the sodium stearate. The warning not to use it on a "warm" surface is a little puzzling. How warm? Why not?

Gary, good questions and I don't have an answer. I like that there is no ammonia, for the reasons listed elsewhere.
I've only used it on the inside of the outer slide tubes and the tuning slides in place of Wrights when I ran out. I don't think it is any more abrasive than the Wright's and it seems easier to rinse out. It also smells better!
I still needed to play and clean the slides multiple times before the cleaning cloths came out clean, but I found the results to be comparable.

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 11:02 am There are some funny things in that description. For example, what is Koolin? I suspect this is a misprint for Kaolin -- in which case that would be the "abrasive" that's referred to. I don't think I'd want even a "mild abrasive" in a general cleaner. Detergents (in general, without additives) don't contain abrasives; and neither Dawn detergent nor Simple Green are abrasive. Otherwise, the only cleaning substances in it appear to be the hydroxyethylcellulose and the sodium stearate. The warning not to use it on a "warm" surface is a little puzzling. How warm? Why not?

It does say Kaolin, they just use a font where the "a" is very similar to the "o".

I primarily use Dawn and finish with Pledge Lemon Spray Polish, buffed with a super soft cloth.

Note.
It's great that folks are cleaning their horns with detergent. But keep in mind that detergent only works on organic compounds, like grease and food particles. It doesn't do anything to remove limescale or oxidation. That is where your friendly Professional Band Instrument Repair Tech comes in handy!!

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:55 am

chouston3 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:53 pm What can I clean my horn with that is not going to damage it?

One simple answer: Blue Dawn dish detergent.

You can branch out from there as you gain experience and some knowledge about cleaning agents and their effects on brass (a la the other comments here). But Dawn is pretty much the bottom line gold standard.

EXACTLY!!!!

Plain citrus furniture polish is plenty good for lacquered horns, use with a soft terrycloth or microfiber cloth.

Plain water should be enough to rinse out the big chunks from the leadpipe and upper slide tube
Swab your outer hand slide tubes with cheesecloth

Anything more should go to a tech.

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:29 pm Plain citrus furniture polish is plenty good for lacquered horns, use with a soft terrycloth or microfiber cloth.

While there's some sense to polishing a lacquered horn if it's "of a certain age", I don't think there's much sense at all to polishing the more modern baked-on epoxy finishes -- unless by "polish" you mean "wipe off with water/alcohol and a microfiber cloth." That said, I have, on occasion "polished" my lacquered instruments -- but not exactly with a "polish" and so not exactly "polished" in the usual sense. The only thing I use (and I can't remember the last time I did it) is Nu Finish. But you'll need to look up the properties it has, what it accomplishes, and why it's not really a "polish".

ghmerrill wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:10 pm

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:29 pm Plain citrus furniture polish is plenty good for lacquered horns, use with a soft terrycloth or microfiber cloth.

While there's some sense to polishing a lacquered horn if it's "of a certain age", I don't think there's much sense at all to polishing the more modern baked-on epoxy finishes -- unless by "polish" you mean "wipe off with water/alcohol and a microfiber cloth." That said, I have, on occasion "polished" my lacquered instruments -- but not exactly with a "polish" and so not exactly "polished" in the usual sense. The only thing I use (and I can't remember the last time I did it) is Nu Finish. But you'll need to look up the properties it has, what it accomplishes, and why it's not really a "polish".

I agree that nothing will "polish" lacquered surfaces, even the so-labeled "lacquer polish" cloths.
For me, it's more of a cleaner to remove lighter water residues, finger prints and dust.
Might offer a bit of protection for unlacquered brass.