TromboneChat

I use a B454-E dualbore bass trombone, a 9.5" 1215 bell and a Greg Black 0G.

I really like the feedback but when I listen to a recording I think it's too bright. I would like it to sound "heavier" and darker.

If I imagine a meter where James Markey is on one side and Tomer Maschkowski is on the other. I would like to put the pointer in the direction of Tomer Maschkowski.
What would you do?

First of all pretty sure that's not an equipment issue. I am not too deep into Edwards and Greg Black, but that is certainly not small and bright equipment.

Also be aware that recordings can be very misleading depending on the room, distance to the microphone, actual recording technology etc. E.g. I hate my sound when recording directly with the smartphone. But when using a nice ribbon microphone, it's totally different. Most realistic is probably to play in different rooms and try to get a feel how the sound varies. Also playing against a wall can change your perception (in a good or bad way...).

Now assuming that your sound REALLY is too "bright", and we do NOT talk about equipment, there are multiple points:
- Listen a lot. To other players to develop your sound rolemodel that you have in your head. And to yourself obviously during practice.
- Reassess your playing basics. Very generally speaking your breathing, embouchure, but also overall functioning of your body during playing influence your sound. If you do not take lessons currently there are certainly good teachers who can help you. Try to reduce stress and pressure in your playing. Actually SMALLER equipment might help. Some players tend to overcompensate large equipment by creating "unnecessary" resistance. And smaller equipment (e.g. mouthpiece or leadpipe) might allow you to play more relaxed. Obviously this is pure speculation!!
- Regarding concrete exercises: For more control over your sound and achieving your "ideal sound", classic long tone exercises and things like Bordogni etudes are probably helpful. A) They allow you to listen, B) they build a certain stability, C) especially studies like Bordogni will allow to do this in a musical way

Hope this helps a little bit! As said, this is of course pure speculation and I have no clue of your current level of playing.

MStarke wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 4:01 am First of all pretty sure that's not an equipment issue. I am not too deep into Edwards and Greg Black, but that is certainly not small and bright equipment.

Also be aware that recordings can be very misleading depending on the room, distance to the microphone, actual recording technology etc. E.g. I hate my sound when recording directly with the smartphone. But when using a nice ribbon microphone, it's totally different. Most realistic is probably to play in different rooms and try to get a feel how the sound varies. Also playing against a wall can change your perception (in a good or bad way...).

Yes, it's probably your microphone choice. Even a tenor trombone will sound overly bright and harsh with the wrong mic. Phone mics and little digital recorder built-in mics won't do justice to your sound.

You don't mention your recording environment. I have this problem because I practice at home in a large, but very "reflective", room: slate floor, laminate (10') ceiling, a wall of floor to ceiling windows. My Tascam DR-05 with external condenser mic recordings were pretty discouraging. Then I thought "Is that what I really sound like? How can I tell?"

I recorded my wife playing piano, and the results were similarly disappointing: the recorded piano didn't sound like the piano it was recording. Back to the Tascam manual and the web for insight, and then a bit of time experimenting with the Tascam settings (mostly just input level) made a world of difference. Before you go nuts making changes in your mouthpiece or trombone, do some kind of objective test to see how accurately your recorder is currently capturing what your real sound is, and how accurately your recorder/playback/speakers/headphones/etc. setup is reproducing the sound that you're actually producing. In short, don't try to "fix" something before you're sure it's "broken."

There are lots of possible reasons. Mouthpiece, horn, approach, playing mechanics, volume.

Some players respond to mouthpieces the opposite of what you'd expect. Bigger ends up brighter.

Dual bore vs single bore, the same way.

Back off, maybe you're playing too aggressively when it's not warranted.

You could be "type switching" or using wrong embouchure mechanics for your face, or otherwise needing some adjustments to the way you do things.

You could be simply playing too loud.

Or it's just incorrect perception of your own sound... that happens.

The last time I heard Tomer (last year), his sound was very dark already.

I'd listen to Doug here. It's actually quite easy to have a huge bass and mouthpiece that ends up bright, because you have to create the resistance in your body to make the horn work.

Bright is not necessarily bad.

And what Doug said.

And... I just listened to Tomer Maschkowski on YouTube. I wouldn't necessarily call his sound dark. It's very resonant and full, but that's just the characteristics of a good sound.

nikofernandes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 2:14 am
What would you do?

I would ask my teacher and my trustworthy colleagues for feedback. Recordings don’t lie when it comes to rhythm, articulation, and intonation, but unless you’re using an appropriate mic in a good environment it’s hard to get an accurate representation of sound.

Also: What you hear hear in your playing (“this side” of the bell) is very different from what other people hear (“the other side” of the bell). Our perception of our sound is distorted by the simultaneous and sympathetic vibrations in our jaw and skull.

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 1:34 pm I would ask my teacher and my trustworthy colleagues for feedback.

There's no substitute for quality, honest ears on the other side of the bell.

(A caveat: some colleagues won't be fully open and honest out of a fear that it could impact your working relationship with them, so it may be challenging to get critical feedback. Being told "sounds great" isn't useful when you know it could sound better. Teachers generally aren't so inhibited.)