My son in law is the surgeon that did the operation and is interviewed in the clip. He told me about this and mentioned that they had him hold the horn and move the slide, but not to actually play. - something to do with building pressure during the surgery.
Re: Trombone in the MRI
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 6:48 am
by hyperbolica
hwlentz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:30 pm
My son in law is the surgeon that did the operation and is interviewed in the clip. He told me about this and mentioned that they had him hold the horn and move the slide, but not to actually play. - something to do with building pressure during the surgery.
Interesting to have a connection like that.
About the tbone, if you play at that up angle the spit will roll back in your mouth.
Re: Trombone in the MRI
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 7:02 am
by BGuttman
Did they actually use an MRI? There are some steel parts in the trombone that could affect the MRI machine. I had to remove all jewelry, and any clothing with metal (like a belt) when I underwent my scan. To play in an MRI I would suggest using a plastic instrument.
I couldn't watch the video; just read the caption. Opening picture did not look like an MRI.
Incidentally, this is a great way to correct essential tremor. Have the patient do things that cause the tremor while probing.
Re: Trombone in the MRI
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 8:47 am
by Burgerbob
There's an MRI scan that they show, and ALSO brain surgery, but not both at the same time. Still pretty impressive to play during surgery- I think maybe I'd bring my bass trumpet instead!
Re: Trombone in the MRI
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:40 pm
by hwlentz
I think OP may have meant OR (operating room) rather than MRI. As I understand it* patient had something called ‘intention’ tremor, which is similar to essential tremor but occurs and interferes when you’re trying to make an intentional movement.
*I’m not licensed to practice medicine anywhere in the world.
Re: Trombone in the MRI
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 4:24 pm
by Posaunus
I just looked at the photo and video. That's no MRI device, which (as Bruce noted) could not be used while playing the trombone. It's just a plastic hood over the patient's head in the operating room to separate the sterile field for the surgeon to manipulate his tools. Any MRI scan would have been done before (and possibly after) this procedure, in a much more imposing piece of machinery.
I guess some metal is ok in the MRI chamber. After having my right knee replaced, 5 weeks later I had an MRI on left knee prior to surgery for getting measurements to size the replacement joint for my left knee. Right leg with metal was in the chamber.
I did get a letter from the MRI staff noting they observed something wrong in my left knee and that I should consult a doctor. Like a surgeon would have sent me for that scan if he wasn’t already planning on replacing the knee??
Re: Trombone in the MRI
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:46 am
by JohnL
BrassSection wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 10:42 am
I guess some metal is ok in the MRI chamber.
Non-magnetic metals and alloys should be OK - but it's better to be safe than sorry, and expecting people to know whether a specific object is magnetic or non-magnetic is probably asking a little much.
Re: Trombone in the MRI
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:39 pm
by BGuttman
One surprising issue with MRI scans is tattoos. Older tattoos used inks with iron pigments and these would react badly to the magnetic field. I've heard that iron pigments will vibrate so strongly they create hot spots and can burn the skin around them. I don't know if modern tattoo inks have the same problem -- given the high prevalence of tattoos I see on younger people I suspect not. Otherwise we will see a major demise in using MRI as a diagnostic tool.
Re: Trombone in the MRI
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:31 pm
by tbdana
Is there a similar procedure that can make me play better?
Re: Trombone in the MRI
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:00 am
by dwcarder
That's my friend Brian! We played together for various functions, one of which sort of spun off into a local horn rock band he's doing regular gigs with. I just saw him earlier this year, and post-surgery is going amazingly well thanks to this amazing technology that keeps the tremors under better control.
"In this case, a 65-yr-old man with bilateral essential tremor underwent awake deep brain stimulator placement targeted to the ventral intermediate nucleus for symptom management and improved quality of life. The patient’s primary complaint was that the tremor affected his ability to play the trombone.
Initially his tremor was managed with oral medications, but, as their effects waned, he struggled to hold his horn steady and felt as though his hands were fighting each other. Because his ability to play the trombone was a key factor in his decision to pursue deep brain stimulator placement, the patient asked if he could bring his trombone to the procedure, to ensure there was symptom improvement after lead placement"
Re: Trombone in the MRI
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 9:56 pm
by mrdeacon
Larry Zalkind’s experience having deep brain surgery to help treat focal dystonia is a fascinating listen.
