TromboneChat

I should know this but I don’t.


Staccato -> ? -> Legato


What’s in the middle? Is there more than one length of note? Is there the ‘standard’ or default, and if so, how is it described?

Well...tenuto is probably the word you're looking for.

There are infinite lengths of notes. Note lengths and shapes are element of style. Listen...recreate...match what you hear from leading voices in ensembles.

Listen and learn what's appropriate for the style you're playing. Sometimes it's hard to define, but for example in Sibelius, you can change the default length in playback by the percentage of full value.

I would call "tenuto" more toward legato. In percentages, typically staccato is about 50%, "normal" would be somewhere around 75-85%, tenuto might be 90-95%, and legato is 100%

I ask because I’m practicing articulations and staccato, something longer, and legato, and I got to wondering about ‘something longer’.

Here's a handy guide to articulation and more: https://learnmusictheory.net/PDFs/pdffi ... ations.pdf

Bach5G wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 5:05 pm

Staccato -> ? -> Legato

Staccato -> Big Band Marcato -> Legato

As a matter of fact, just get to rid of the legato completely.

The correct answer is there is an infinity of lengths. Those articulation symbols are not length markings, they are, well, articulation marks. Which includes a notion of length, but also attack, shape, release. Staccato is not just a shorter note, and tenuto is not just longer note.

I sometimes think that the invention of these symbols and terms was almost a regression in music, because it can (and often does) influence people into standardizing their articulations into 5 or 6 different ones that should be totally consistent, instead of exploiting the infinity of nuances in-between.

Well said:

The correct answer is there is an infinity of lengths. Those articulation symbols are not length markings, they are, well, articulation marks. Which includes a notion of length, but also attack, shape, release. Staccato is not just a shorter note, and tenuto is not just longer note.

The end goal is to play as a team, the same way, and if there is a conductor, to satisfy that person's vision.

Here's some more info. One thing that constantly comes up in groups I play in is dots over note heads that are also under a legato slur. Seems that it actually has a name! Portato. See below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portato

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:53 pm I sometimes think that the invention of these symbols and terms was almost a regression in music, because it can (and often does) influence people into standardizing their articulations into 5 or 6 different ones that should be totally consistent, instead of exploiting the infinity of nuances in-between.

In solo music maybe. Inconsistent articulations and note lengths are the death of your section in a Big Band or basically any commercial setting. I think those styles are the ones where articulation markings are the most important.

If you're playing a rhythm with a lilt, match the note cutoff to the lilt.

PhilTrombone wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:27 am Well said:

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:53 pmStaccato is not just a shorter note, and tenuto is not just longer note.

The end goal is to play as a team

There are only two lengths of notes: the right length and the length I play.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 7:06 am

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:53 pm I sometimes think that the invention of these symbols and terms was almost a regression in music, because it can (and often does) influence people into standardizing their articulations into 5 or 6 different ones that should be totally consistent, instead of exploiting the infinity of nuances in-between.

In solo music maybe. Inconsistent articulations and note lengths are the death of your section in a Big Band or basically any commercial setting. I think those styles are the ones where articulation markings are the most important.

I'm not sure we mean the same thing, so also not sure if I agree.

The same throughout the section/band (i.e. vertically), yes, of course. It has to match, just as tuning, timing and dynamics have to be together as appropriate. To me that's not about articulation, though, that's just basic ensemble skills. In other words, the band could collectively play the totally opposite from the written articulation, and if they all do it together the same and match, it'll sound tons better than if they each play a slightly different version of the written one.

But I would absolutely disagree that articulations and length (or dynamics for that matter) have to be same "horizontally" throughout a piece or concert. If every staccato note the band plays is exactly the same length and shape, and every tenuto is done the same, and every unmarked note is done the same, then where's the music? Of course in solo music it's easier to implement at a finer level because there's less coordination involved, but that's still something we can do in a section or band.

Also it's a common false premise in the brass world that variety=inconsistency. That might be true when the variation is from lack of control and technical problems, but using more than just a few limited note shapes and articulations is not inconsistency if it's done in a controlled way and on purpose in agreement with the music and your interpretation of it. TL;DR, Yo-Yo Ma, Itzhak Perlman and Pavarotti are not inconsistent.

You say portato and I say portAto.

“Mezzo staccato” according to the article.

Back in the day, there was what was commonly referred to in town as a “Stew Barnett quarter note”, after a local trumpet player. Full value but not too long.