TromboneChat

A friend was asking me how many trombones are made of a particular model? I assume lots of 88H variants are made each year while Stephens are very few per year. I assume some variants of bass would be limited compared to tenor. What about other models from other brands?

Curious what guesstimates people would think would be made per year.

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Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:54 pm7

Only a guess here.

My guess is a few hundred to a few thousand professional trombones are produced by each manufacturer annually unless they have a real small business. I do not think Lars Gerd AB has made more than a total of 20. If you spread that over his years of manufacturing it could be one a year

/Tom

Well let me give you some real data. For my trombone, the Minick Great G only 6 were made, so Burgerbob was off by 1.

I would think most professional trombones are purchased by amateurs.

If that were not the case, pro horns would be too expensive for the pros. We weekend warriors are subsidizing them.

And we pros help to develop the trombones you amateurs play

It`s the Amateurs' in the Community Bands and Orchestras that are really keeping the Boutique companies a float.
People with really good jobs that want a good horn

Not as many horns as you would probably think.

Look at the serial numbers of Bach; there are only like 200K and that dates back to the 1930’s! Mid 90’s were at 100K, so that still leaves us with 100K horns or so over the last 30 years. And that’s the big “mass production” shop. Boutique makers, even bigger ones like Shires and Edwards will still only touch a fraction of that volume.

Cheers,
Andy

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:54 pm7

Well that's about how many of each instrument Markus Leuchter makes at one time. 7 basses, then 7 tenors then 7 Kontrabasses then 7 altos, then 7 tenor sackbuts and so on.

So that's why there is roughly a 2 years waiting time between each batch of the same instruments.

I follow car stuff pretty closely and it's pretty easy to find out how many of each model and variant is manufactured in a given year. It's curious it's not as easy to find out something similar for instruments and their variants.

Hamby86 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:35 pm I follow car stuff pretty closely and it's pretty easy to find out how many of each model and variant is manufactured in a given year. It's curious it's not as easy to find out something similar for instruments and their variants.

FMVSS mandates that those records exist and are maintained for decades.

What is it worth to Bach that you know how many horns they have made? If anything, it would probably dilute their value.

Cheers,
Andy

There is no regulation, that I am aware of, for instrument makers to report serial number lists to anyone.

M&W has been producing instruments/valve sections for a little over 8 years. I am nearing serial number 300. We started as a 2 man shop, using a lot of vendors for making parts such as bent tubes, machined parts (all our own tooling/designs) It's been a one man operation for 4 1/2 years, and I have brought many processes in-house (such as bent parts, many smaller machines parts)

Obviously I am not going to make anywhere near as many horns a year as Conn-Selmer with triple figure (?) employees.

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 5:39 pm There is no regulation, that I am aware of, for instrument makers to report serial number lists to anyone.

M&W has been producing instruments/valve sections for a little over 8 years. I am nearing serial number 300. We started as a 2 man shop, using a lot of vendors for making parts such as bent tubes, machined parts (all our own tooling/designs) It's been a one man operation for 4 1/2 years, and I have brought many processes in-house (such as bent parts, many smaller machines parts)

Obviously I am not going to make anywhere near as many horns a year as Conn-Selmer with triple figure (?) employees.

The only two M&W horns I have tried, have both been exquisite - outstanding - in all regards! I am impressed by how they played and behaved all through how I play and what I do.

Had I not had the urgent need for a bass trombone at the time, I would, without second thought on the spot, have bought a lightly used Bach-style 322 - but I had to prioritize.

Now I have the ultimate goal of saving up to a 336 or 322, depending on what gigs I seem to do the most. My toughts are that a 336 can be used for third parts in big band settings and principal in orchestras, whereas the 322 seems to be more suited for orchestral and chamber music work. I have a need to upgrade my F-valve tenor horn, since my trusty King 3BF (I think it's a 3B+, but I can't find anything marking it as such and I haven't measured it) is old and getting worn.

I am of the opinion that leading a section should be done with a certain distinction of tone (Håkan Björkman is to me a perfect example of that idiom of sound) that I too often find many orchestral principals lack - or maybe don't use. Therefore I think that a medium bore 336 would suit me well, if my job situation takes me there.

Either way: a M&W tenor horn is what I aim for now. Thanks for a fantastic contribution to the instrument market!

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 5:39 pm There is no regulation, that I am aware of, for instrument makers to report serial number lists to anyone.
….

To be clear, I was responding to the note about cars; FMVSS is Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.

Even the presence of a serial number is entirely voluntary for a trombone. There’s no particular reason for it to have one beyond some warranty, and you can see with the modular horns where 3/4s of the horn doesn’t have a serial number that it isn’t viewed with a lot of importance.

Thank you for the numbers on your production, that is very fascinating information.

Cheers,
Andy

Andy said "To be clear, I was responding to the note about cars; FMVSS is Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards."

Yes, I was aware of that. I mentioned the lack of regulation for instrument makers just to provide some clarity. Funny story. When the business started, I mentioned to my Step-Son that I stamped serial numbers. He asked which government agency they had to be reported to. I told him there was no such reporting necessary, and that the serial numbers were really just a way for us to keep a track of what was made when. Also that gives the instrument an "identity" for any legal/insurance purposes.