TromboneChat

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:06 pm**

Okay everyone. Chime in one and all. What’s your favorite.500 bore instrument and why? GO!

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:13 pm**

M&W model 210. Spec of choice. (Either 8" 2Y with gold tube/nickel crook and sleeves, or 8" 1G with light nickel slide)

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:54 pm**

Martin Urbie Green

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:57 pm**

Conn 48h Connstellation.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 5:10 pm**

My yamaha 852. F attachment or death!

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:03 pm**

I like the Urbie and 48h, but the mid-50s 38h Connstellation is all the good qualities of the 48h without the crazy zing it gets. I've only had one, but it was kind of the sweet spot for old Conns.

I was gonna say Minick 100h, but attainable is better. Not that a 38h is attainable, but I did own one.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:07 pm**

Conn 40H. My other small bores are smaller bore.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:16 pm**

Bach 12. Blows surprisingly big for a small bore!

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:20 pm**

King Flugabone.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:28 pm**

Does a .509 count? If so, the Bach LT16MG. It has a unique character and an absolutely wonderful sound. And so versatile. Yeah, yeah, Bach has quality control issues. Okay, whatever. But if you get a well built horn, which isn't that hard, there's nothing like it.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:41 pm**

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:03 pm I was gonna say Minick 100h, but attainable is better.

I remember tooting on Jason Jackson's Minick when we were in college. That might be the best trombone of any size I've ever played.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:51 pm**

tbdana wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:28 pm Does a .509 count? If so, the Bach LT16MG. It has a unique character and an absolutely wonderful sound. And so versatile. Yeah, yeah, Bach has quality control issues. Okay, whatever. But if you get a well built horn, which isn't that hard, there's nothing like it.

Sorry no. .500 only.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:59 pm**

Shires.
Big horn timbre on a small horn.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:04 pm**

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:51 pm
tbdana wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:28 pm Does a .509 count? If so, the Bach LT16MG. It has a unique character and an absolutely wonderful sound. And so versatile. Yeah, yeah, Bach has quality control issues. Okay, whatever. But if you get a well built horn, which isn't that hard, there's nothing like it.
Sorry no. .500 only.

Dang...left out of the party again.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:14 pm**

My King Cleveland 606.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:16 pm**

tbdana wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:04 pm
Dang...left out of the party again.

Aw, I'll change my vote to Getzen 3508, 500/508 dual bore. Just to be contrary.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 8:14 pm**

Man, I sure wish I had Ian McDougall's original King 2B+. (got to steal some notes on it once).

He'd had some input to Yamaha on the horn, and told some stories about that.

That horn played like a dream.

He'd always been a King 2B player before using the original 2B+.
Then, he switched to the Yamaha 697z after he left Toronto and went back to the west coast. But he pulled out his old King 2B Silver to record an album sometime before settling on the 697z.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 10:36 pm**

Haven’t tried many modern boutique custom .500s But here’s my .500 list:

Best sound: Williams.

Most flexible: Minick, brass alchemy. Too light for me though

Easiest to just pick up and play and it sounds good:
Martin Urbie Green

Best modern: Greenhoe GC2

Best on a mic: Bach LT12G

Most interesting: Lawler

Most surprising in a great way: King 2BPLG

Personal favorite: Conn 6H !!!!

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 11:10 pm**

None, I‘ve owned plenty but could never really settle on a .500“ horn and have moved towards my 2B Silvertone or 3B/F for small bore.

Of the 0.500“ horns I‘ve owned the Minick 0.500“ was top dog for its unique flexibility. I wasn‘t keen on taking it out of the house (didn’t want to damage it!) and I think it’s most at home on small combo playing, which frankly I‘m not very good at so it was wasted on me and has gone to a better home.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 3:48 am**

I can only speak of my personal favorite .500 bore within a relatively limited choice - haven't played many others recently.

I enjoy my Minick, Conn 6h and 100h kind more or less equally.
The Minick is great, I find it to be very nice and easy to play, having a good degree of character and being quite adaptable to different playing situations. Could be the perfect lead horn, but also works very well on the upper voices in a trombone ensemble or even as alto replacement.
The 6h (actually two of them) is also fun, has lots of character, a little more picky in response maybe, not quite as flexible. I find it to be on the "darker" side and a little less easy for lead parts. Needs more energy to sparkle than the Minick.
The Conn 100h is to a degree a surprise. It doesn't get the best reputation and I can kind of understand where it comes from. Extremely light and responsive, playing loud can be uncontrolled and might be overly bright. But overall it's really nice to play. When staying in the mp-mf range, it's sooo nice. Surprisingly at a bigband gig a few days ago - playing the 100h on second (which was more of an experiment) - I got a really nice compliment on the sound.

I tested a .500 bore (I think?) Martin Committee a while back. Felt and to a degree also played like a tank. Very stable and dark sound, but not enough sparkle and if I remember correctly also too much resistance in the upper register for myself.

I would currently not want to give away the Minick, 6h or 100h. But if I had to choose just one, I would keep the Minick. Not because it's overall better, but just because it's more difficult to replace.

If I would buy a new smallbore, I would love to try the Greenhoe and M&W.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 6:07 am**

I am very content with my SS Shires custom 0.500 bore.

Firm enough slotting to be flexible yet supportive, the right openness to give me full sound all through the register and of a construction that suits the materials I chose to accomodate my playing and support both loud and soft dynamics. My Yamaha 697 (no z) is good and well made, but the Shires suits me far better and with a whole new level of accomodation.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 6:13 am**

The one .500 tube in the Conn 36H is the best .500 I've ever played.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 6:38 am**

Lawler PS1

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 7:35 am**

Thanks for all of the responses so far. I put this up because I'm contemplating purchasing a .500 bore instrument for the first time. I'm primarily a bass trombonist but have always played tenor and have lots of experience with .547 and .508 bore instruments. I would only use this instrument in show situations as many of the current National Tours that I do require tenor and bass playing. Anyway there you go. Keep the posts coming!

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:05 am**

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:07 pm Conn 40H. My other small bores are smaller bore.

Now do the partials line up on yours? Is it TIS?

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:22 am**

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 7:35 am Thanks for all of the responses so far. I put this up because I'm contemplating purchasing a .500 bore instrument for the first time. I'm primarily a bass trombonist but have always played tenor and have lots of experience with .547 and .508 bore instruments. I would only use this instrument in show situations as many of the current National Tours that I do require tenor and bass playing. Anyway there you go. Keep the posts coming!

If you're good with 508, you might consider sticking with that. I find the sound difference isn't huge, but the air difference is just big enough to cause issues. Especially moving from a big horn to a 500 takes a while to control the air evenly. While making the transition, I sound a little wobbly on the 500 bore, but the 508 is much better.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:36 am**

OneTon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:05 am
BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:07 pm Conn 40H. My other small bores are smaller bore.
Now do the partials line up on yours? Is it TIS?

Given how I play the partial lineup is fine. I use a Wick 4BS. Plays like a small 0.525" horn. Yes, it's TIS, with the Ballroom bell (set back).

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:45 am**

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:36 am
Given how I play the partial lineup is fine. I use a Wick 4BS. Plays like a small 0.525" horn. Yes, it's TIS, with the Ballroom bell (set back).

I had a clean one restored by Renold Schilke around
1973. The slide rivaled a Shires. The plating was perfect. I was playing it with a Schilke 47. I didn’t spend enough time with it. Like an idiot, i sold it.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:53 am**

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 7:35 am Thanks for all of the responses so far. I put this up because I'm contemplating purchasing a .500 bore instrument for the first time. I'm primarily a bass trombonist but have always played tenor and have lots of experience with .547 and .508 bore instruments. I would only use this instrument in show situations as many of the current National Tours that I do require tenor and bass playing. Anyway there you go. Keep the posts coming!

I wouldn't sweat it over the difference between 0.500 and 0.508; there are so many other factors that determine the resulting sound that I'd put more emphasis on how a horn feels and blows to my playing characteristics, than to what size it is.

That said, the 0.500 size is for me a good compromise of getting a pointed sound where I want and need, and achieving some acceptable substance of sound in the lower register. The bigger or smaller horns I have, two 3B:s and a Yamaha 697, tip that balance for me and though I could play, and have played, big band lead on a straight 3B I went away from that because of the, then subconscious and unformulated but percieved and worked-on, lack of balance of sound and playability.

Theoretically, you could achieve the same results with either size horn, be it a 0.500 or a 0.508 or a 0.525 or a 0.547, but in practise it all comes down to how you play and what traits each individual horn has.

So in the end, I'd say it all comes down to if you want a new horn or not, and a new horn is always a new horn

.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 9:29 am**

If I had the cash, there is a very good chance I would probably buy an M&W with a one-piece bell, and probably an F attachment if Matt would do that.

There are also a decent amount of Mt. Vernon Bachs floating around that aren't 500 (though the 12 is) but are in its orbit and they tend to play a touch bigger than other comparable bore sizes to me. So a 16 or 8 might suit you well.

You may also want to consider expanding the possible options to be slightly smaller. There are some really good horns in the same vein that are slightly different such as the Shires Michael David (493(?)/500), some of the Yamaha (484/500 iirc?) and the King 2B all of which to me feel bigger than some of the comparable 485 bore horns like the Conn 4H.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 11:41 am**

Matt K wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 9:29 am If I had the cash, there is a very good chance I would probably buy an M&W with a one-piece bell, and probably an F attachment if Matt would do that.

There are also a decent amount of Mt. Vernon Bachs floating around that aren't 500 (though the 12 is) but are in its orbit and they tend to play a touch bigger than other comparable bore sizes to me. So a 16 or 8 might suit you well.

You may also want to consider expanding the possible options to be slightly smaller. There are some really good horns in the same vein that are slightly different such as the Shires Michael David (493(?)/500), some of the Yamaha (484/500 iirc?) and the King 2B all of which to me feel bigger than some of the comparable 485 bore horns like the Conn 4H.

If anyone runs across a a 0.484-0.500 bore Yamaha I would be curious about the details. It took a while for me to get to where I could switch between the Yamaha YSL-653 and Duo-Gravis on the same day. Having a small bore horn is better than playing lead on a Duo-Gravis (several times: no re-match). The information that RJMason provided lines up with what I have played or listened to. There are plenty of good 0.500 bore choices. I like the way the Conn 40H and YSL-653 sound, but they are quickly following the unicorn on the endangered list. Domination of the King 2B in the smaller market may have been due to their being a gorilla in the room. The 0.500 market seems to be more open. Given how much I like the King 2B and Duo-Gravis, I think a King 2BPL would probably satisfy the itch for me. And I would not be that surprised if a King 2BPL became not only a favorite but a "love affair" as well. I like the 6H but probably for the wrong reasons, too.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:00 pm**

https://thebrass-exchange.com/content/y ... mbone-used

I was specifically thinking fo the 697, which is a 484/490, not 500 my bad!

FWIW, a YSL354 slide should fit on a 653 and it wouldn't be a stretch to get a .485 or .484 upper slide added to fit it (probalby a 697 or 891 would be suitable).

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 1:46 pm**

1. Williams 6 (Earl)
2. Williams 6 (Bob)
3. Elkhart 6H
4. Romeo Adaci .500 red brass
5. King 2B+ gold bell (2102PLG) - still trying to find a 2115 to try!

And I own...none of them

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2024 2:37 pm**

Finetales wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 1:46 pm 1. Williams 6 (Earl)
2. Williams 6 (Bob)
3. Elkhart 6H
4. Romeo Adaci .500 red brass
5. King 2B+ gold bell (2102PLG) - still trying to find a 2115 to try!

And I own...none of them

Now you're talking!!!

Posted: **Sat Aug 24, 2024 3:40 pm**

MStarke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 3:48 am I can only speak of my personal favorite .500 bore within a relatively limited choice - haven't played many others recently.

I enjoy my Minick, Conn 6h and 100h kind more or less equally.
The Minick is great, I find it to be very nice and easy to play, having a good degree of character and being quite adaptable to different playing situations. Could be the perfect lead horn, but also works very well on the upper voices in a trombone ensemble or even as alto replacement.
The 6h (actually two of them) is also fun, has lots of character, a little more picky in response maybe, not quite as flexible. I find it to be on the "darker" side and a little less easy for lead parts. Needs more energy to sparkle than the Minick.
The Conn 100h is to a degree a surprise. It doesn't get the best reputation and I can kind of understand where it comes from. Extremely light and responsive, playing loud can be uncontrolled and might be overly bright. But overall it's really nice to play. When staying in the mp-mf range, it's sooo nice. Surprisingly at a bigband gig a few days ago - playing the 100h on second (which was more of an experiment) - I got a really nice compliment on the sound.

I tested a .500 bore (I think?) Martin Committee a while back. Felt and to a degree also played like a tank. Very stable and dark sound, but not enough sparkle and if I remember correctly also too much resistance in the upper register for myself.

I would currently not want to give away the Minick, 6h or 100h. But if I had to choose just one, I would keep the Minick. Not because it's overall better, but just because it's more difficult to replace.

If I would buy a new smallbore, I would love to try the Greenhoe and M&W.

Well owning a Minick would be a dream. Or an early 100H.

Posted: **Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:13 pm**

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2024 3:40 pm
MStarke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 3:48 am
Well owning a Minick would be a dream. Or an early 100H.

I had a Minick “100H” (air quotes because it wasn’t actually called that). It was ok but it played flat. I sold it to a touring pro who had it cut down so it would play in tune.

I also had a Conn 100 H. The slide was misaligned and couldn’t be easily repaired. I was told it was a common problem with the early horns, a design or manufacturing flaw.

Posted: **Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:22 pm**

Yamaha ysl354, affordable and does the job, though I usually play a .508 Shires

Posted: **Sat Aug 24, 2024 5:03 pm**

1. My current Edwards that I got for a steal
2. Yamaha 653
3. Older Lawler that I bought on here from Dave Ashley

I played a sweet 50's 6H in college, some 48H's, I really want to try another Bach 12. .500 is primarily where I live right now, so it's easy to justify buying more of them.

Posted: **Sat Aug 24, 2024 5:53 pm**

• Getzen 3508 (O.500"/0.508" dual bore)
,• Conn 6H

Posted: **Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:26 pm**

I have 2 incredible Bach12`s
1) LtBach12G with a Kanstul W6 Leadpipe - Really open and free blowing.
2) 1965 Bach 12 slide with over sleeves removed and a LT nickel crook with a 8G bell
THE BEST .500 bore horns I`ve ever played

Posted: **Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:55 am**

Williams 6. Although I have to admit that a friend of mine has a 6H that is insanely good and feels like it is playing itself. Also once tested a Bach 12 that I really liked too. But since I got my Williams 6, I don't bother to look around for other .500 bore horns.

Posted: **Sun Aug 25, 2024 5:39 am**

EriKon wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:55 am Williams 6. Although I have to admit that a friend of mine has a 6H that is insanely good and feels like it is playing itself. Also once tested a Bach 12 that I really liked too. But since I got my Williams 6, I don't bother to look around for other .500 bore horns.

Yes I've heard the Williams 6 is amazing.

Posted: **Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:14 am**

I had two Williams 6s. A Donelson and a Bob. They were ok.

In a weak moment, I sold a DeBruycker/Bach combo to a friend recently. Great slide. 50 years old, probably. He subsequently raved about the horn. Almost plays itself, he said. It never did that for me.

Maybe I just don’t get on with smaller horns. But I like my Shires .525 and if my tech can get the slide up to snuff, I expect I’m going to enjoy my 16M.

Posted: **Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:29 am**

Herb Bruce makes an extremely good .500 bore horn.

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