TromboneChat

Look at the weld right below the valve.

I have had a different Shires horn have this weld fail. Is this a common problem as horns get older?
When it rains, it pours.



It wasn't too long ago when I posted about a weld for the valve trigger on my bass trombone snapping.

Not uncommon unfortunately, for that joint to come loose.

Not a difficult repair, but definitely needs to come apart to be done correctly!
I've seen WAY too many "repairs" done half-assed by floating flux and solder without properly cleaning the parts.

And just FYI, nothing is "welded" on brass horns, only soldered. Just a peeve of mine....

Somebody didn't put enough thought into structure when that was designed. Beyond being a bad solder job originally.

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:12 pm And just FYI, nothing is "welded" on brass horns, only soldered. Just a peeve of mine....

Dammit, you're right!

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:12 pm Not uncommon unfortunately, for that joint to come loose.

Is this the lead free solder, as well?

OneTon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 5:06 pm

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:12 pm Not uncommon unfortunately, for that joint to come loose.

Is this the lead free solder, as well?

No, although the low-lead solder usually does have a higher tensil strength.

But as Doug mentioned, it is a common point of failure.
My thought is that the weight of the bell section "pivots" on that connection as there is little or no support from the left hand when holding the horn. Wasn't as big of a problem when the trigger was behind the main bell brace and the thumb gave more support.

But also, if the connection isn't sufficiently clean and tight fitting, the solder will only hold so much before it lets loose. Especially on a subsequent repair if the joint wasn't disassembled and cleaned properly.

Thanks

OneTon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 8:07 pmThanks

Yes Sir!

Amused that your lefty tenor Trubore has a wrap that mirrors a regular bass single Trubore.

Took me a second to figure out why I thought that was funny looking.

Anyway, this is also why I prefer to have the main bell brace soldered to that receiver rather than brazed, makes putting this back a little easier for my brain. Also, I’d rather take off the main bell brace and leave the receiver than vice versa. But I don’t do a lot of these, so my opinion shouldn’t count for much.

Cheers,
Andy

I got the horn back from the repair tech today, and it turns out he also touched up the soldering on the crossbrace. Much, much better. The valve action is even better; those 2 joints must have been having issues and I didn't really realize it until Monday.

I'm really thankful in this case. The solder broke to obvious proportions during the sitzprobe of a world premiere of Alyce (musical) and I'm doubling between tenor and bass. It's really fun; I don't get many opportunities to do that doubling in a single gig.

Here's a photo I snapped that is more upbeat. Johnathan Napper, conducting. Matthew Croft, coffee drinker, to John's right.

I am grateful that the trombone is mended and that you have such a wonderful gig.

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 4:12 pm
And just FYI, nothing is "welded" on brass horns, only soldered. Just a peeve of mine....

If you didn't say it, I was going to.

elmsandr wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 7:57 am Amused that your lefty tenor Trubore has a wrap that mirrors a regular bass single Trubore.

Took me a second to figure out why I thought that was funny looking.

The tenor is lefty, the bass is righty.

It actually makes the physical positioning of the trombone stands and music, and the consequential motions of swapping of horns, a bit nicer.

Wait a minute………what? You play bass right-handed and tenor left-handed? On behalf of hundreds of trombonists, I will ask……why?

I know that people switch hands for medical/physical therapy reasons (especially arm, hand and shoulder). I also know that people switch hands while practicing to reduce pressure on places on their embouchure. I always considered these as transition techniques, to help a player through physical or medical problems. I’m have never known a person who performs ambidextrously. In baseball, it is called being a switch hitter. On trombone, do we call it a “switch slider?”

Honestly, I just thought your first photo was reversed and it was a regular right-hand-on-slide trombone.

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:39 am why?

To go back in history, when I started on trombone in 7th grade I was playing left-handed, and when I got a horn with a trigger I also learned that right-handed. I've kept the general pattern since: on valveless horns I go lefty. That Shires is an exception, when I asked them if they could build the valve lefty and they said yes.

There are some other advantages that are more on the subtle side: switching hands can help me dial in my embouchure/occlusion tendencies.

AndrewMeronek wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 10:28 am

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:39 am why?

To go back in history, when I started on trombone in 7th grade I was playing left-handed, and when I got a horn with a trigger I also learned that right-handed. I've kept the general pattern since: on valveless horns I go lefty. That Shires is an exception, when I asked them if they could build the valve lefty and they said yes.

There are some other advantages that are more on the subtle side: switching hands can help me dial in my embouchure/occlusion tendencies.

Thanks for the explanation. Very unique. Kudos to you because it sounds like you make it work just fine!

I’m have never known a person who performs ambidextrously. In baseball, it is called being a switch hitter. On trombone, do we call it a “switch slider?”

Slusher switcher.

I have actually worked at playing left handed at various times, and I used to occasionaly switch . Today on a gig I got a bad cramp in my left hand, so I switched to left handed for one tune and the cramp went away.