TromboneChat

TL; DR - I notice that gold/red brass bell sounds more nasal than yellow brass bell, both at higher and lower dynamics. Nasalness implies strong higher harmonics, but gold and red brass is supposed to be "darker" or strong in lower dynamics. Has anyone notice the same trend?

I know this kind of topic has already been brought up ad nauseam by now, but I am really curious and need other perspective before I make the decision that would cost me almost 2 years of my saving, and some of my (now unused) horns as well.

After my trip test-playing horns in Japan in April, I have decided to bite the bullet and begin saving up to buy a new horn, the Yamaha YBL-835. The fund is almost in place, but I will not be in Japan again until October 2024, so I still have plenty of time.

Having decided on the model, the only question remaining is the bell choice. I have, in theory, 4 options: yellow brass 835, gold brass 835G, yellow brass cut 835D, and gold brass cut 835GD.

When play-testing in person, I had a chance to compare yellow bell and gold bell side-by-side (but not cut and uncut at once). I like the sound of the gold brass bell models (835G and 835GD) more. However, when listen to the recording, I notice that the sounds of both gold bell models are quite "nasal", i.e. sounds a bit like someone speaking with his/her nose pinched.

It is most noticeable in the video at Miki Gakki (830 vs 835D vs 835GD - see below), but can be heard in the video at Yamaha Ginza (830 vs 835 vs 835G) as well. As far as I can hear, the sounds of gold brass bell seem to have this characteristic both at higher and lower dynamics, more obvious in lower register than in higher register.

I notice the nasalness in other horns with gold and red brass bell tested during the trip as well, but the Yamahas were not obvious from behind the bell.

I am quite a bit taken aback by this discovery. General belief is that gold brass bell sounds darker (wich usually means more pronounced lower harmonics) at least at lower dynamics. But to sound "nasal" normally means the opposite.

That creates a dilemma in my mind. I like gold brass bell. I like its appearance (I know this should be the least concern, but still...), and I like the sound from behind the bell. But I also want a horn that sounds large(r than my current 830) in front of the bell.

Don't worry, I will try as many horns as I can before I buy, and, if possible, have someone help me choose (but that means the someone has to be in Japan with me at the time). In the end it may even depends on what is in the shop on the day I visit, but it should not be that difficult to find all the 4 options in various shops in Tokyop (at least Yamaha Ginza, DAC, and Shimokura). And if necessary I might also go to Miki Gakki in Osaka as well.

But the question is: Has anyone notice the same trend? Has anyone also have a chance to compare yellow bell and gold bell version of an otherwise identical horn side by side? If yes, was your perception the same as mine?


Videos for reference

Miki Gakki Osaka (830 vs 835D vs 835GD)


Yamaha Ginza (830 vs 835 vs 835G)

I believe that the 835D and 835 (both versions of the yellow bell) sounded superior to the 835G. At least as recorded, there was more core and presence. The 835G variants did sound "darker" but also more diffuse and less present.

The 835D on Mt. King was the best sound on all the recordings.

There were many times that the 830 sounded almost exactly the same as the 835, so if you already have the 830....

Yes! I'm not sure if "nasal" is the word I would use, but I always find gold brass to be a downgrade from yellow brass for me. I like yellow, I like red, but gold just seems to offer the worst of both rather than the best of both.

In my opinion, gold brass always sounds better to me during the trial and honeymoon phase and then I end up needing a yellow brass bell for my work. For me, gold brass bells only click long term when paired with all nickel slides. The 835D is really good.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2024 9:18 amThere were many times that the 830 sounded almost exactly the same as the 835, so if you already have the 830....

That is intriguing, because the sound from behind the bell was quite different. Both 835 models sounded much larger than the 830.

If I have a chance, I would like to do an experiment, where identical microphones are set behind and in front of the bell, and then compare the sounds from both sources between various configurations. But that would be quite difficult to pull off in Thailand

The blow was also much different. The 835s are markedly more free-blowing. Only the 835GD was almost as stuffy as my 830.