TromboneChat

So...

Why do German instrument makers put rotary valves on trumpets and piston valves on horns?

It seems it's not a German instrument unless it has a whole lot of extra linkages that the rest of the known universe has found a way to avoid.

???

So that you can use Klappen keys in a configuration that makes sense. The rotary valves are just a means to get at the cheat codes in an ergonomic manner.

I thought that it was primarily the Viennese that use the Pumpenvalve horns. They are Austrian, not German.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_horn

The sound of the Vienna Philharmonic (and Vienna Symphony) is "different" - and pleasing. I hope they don't change so that they sound like every other modern orchestra.

Rotary trumpets sound awesome

Posaunus wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:42 pm I thought that it was primarily the Viennese that use the Pumpenvalve horns. They are Austrian, not German.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_horn

The sound of the Vienna Philharmonic (and Vienna Symphony) is "different" - and pleasing. I hope they don't change so that they sound like every other modern orchestra.

Deutsche Drehventile sind nicht Wiener Pumpventile (genauer genannt: "Doppelrohrschubventil" In Wien haben die Trompete Deutsche Drehventile und die Waldhörner haben Pumpventile "Doppelrohrschubventil".
(Googel Translate ist Dein Freund)

https://www.mdw.ac.at/iwk/wiener-horn/
https://www.brasstacks.de/wiener-ventile.html

https://www.jm-gmbh.de/drehventile/

musicofnote wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:22 am Deutsche Drehventile sind nicht Wiener Pumpventile (genauer genannt: "Doppelrohrschubventil" In Wien haben die Trompete Deutsche Drehventile und die Waldhörner haben Pumpventile "Doppelrohrschubventil".

Ja, das weiß ich. In Österreich haben Trompeten Drehventile und Waldhörner Pumpventile.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 1:53 am

musicofnote wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 12:22 am Deutsche Drehventile sind nicht Wiener Pumpventile (genauer genannt: "Doppelrohrschubventil" In Wien haben die Trompete Deutsche Drehventile und die Waldhörner haben Pumpventile "Doppelrohrschubventil".

Ja, das weiß ich. In Österreich haben Trompeten Drehventile und Waldhörner Pumpventile.

Das ist genau das, was ich geschrieben hatte:
"In Wien haben die Trompete Deutsche Drehventile und die Waldhörner haben Pumpventile "Doppelrohrschubventil"
Allerdings ist das eher typisch für Wien, nicht ganz Österreich. Zum Beispiel, in Salzburg und Innsbruck und anderswo, spielen die Waldhornisten/-innen auf handelsüblichen Drehventilinstrumenten, meistens von Alexander.

https://www.landestheater.at/orchester/
https://www.mozarteumorchester.at/orche ... ker-innen/
https://camerata.at/de/musikerinnen
https://www.bruckner-orchester.at/de/or ... en-musiker

Relative to BillO's original post:
I know that rotary valve trumpets are ubiquitous in Germany (and common elsewhere these days). Now often found in American orchestras when playing some literature.
But apparently Pumpenvalve horns are used almost exclusively in and around Vienna (Austria), not in Germany.

My bad, Austria it is...

BillO wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:49 am My bad, Austria it is...

And really particularly specifically Vienna, because tradition. It's more than just the valves though. They have a distinctly different bore profile more akin to that of a 19th-century natural horn. They also still use crooks inserted between the mouthpiece and instruments like on a natural horn and are always single horns. It's really a whole different concept of the instrument.

They also have different oboes than anywhere else.

Rotary valves are cool, they often don't need to be lubed for weeks of regular usage and they usually have a short throw and good action. Piston valves need to be lubed much more. I also really like the sound of rotary trumpets.

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:37 amAnd really particularly specifically Vienna, because tradition. It's more than just the valves though. They have a distinctly different bore profile more akin to that of a 19th-century natural horn. They also still use crooks inserted between the mouthpiece and instruments like on a natural horn and are always single horns. It's really a whole different concept of the instrument.

From what I've seen, the mouthpiece is also different - a very open throat, almost (but not quite) to the point of not really having a venturi.