TromboneChat

Hi,
I received a recommendation to apply oil in the links of the valve to the handle so that the valve would be smoother, but I don't know which oil to use.

I use Hetman 11 lubricant for the valve itself and behind the outside moving part but I don't know what lubricant number to use for the linkages.

Any recommendations?

Edit: Picture:

hetman bearing and linkage

Hetman oil has been boughten out by another company and the dealers that I spoke with either couldn't get the old style-- with the needle -- or weren't sure if the new style bottle without the needle was the same oil or not.

I tried to get some Hetman for my grandson a couple of months ago when he got his 1st trigger horn and it was very hard to find. We ended up with something else, but i can't remember what brand it was.

I still have a bottle of H's with the needle and if it turns out that the new stuff is the same, I'm going to refill the old bottle. Having the needle makes all the different in the world.

Getzen premium spindle oil has the needle to be precise on the linkage.

For those who need a needle, your Local Tractor Supply or Rural King should carry a selection of veterinary syringes and assorted needles. I keep some on hand for small lubrication uses, or occasionally for their intended use. For some reason, I used a whole lot more for equines than I do for bovines.

Hetman #15, "ball joint", is what you want. I believe a bottle of that should last for a decade or more.

If you can find it.

For a long time I used Yamaha linkage oil. Then I got some Mobil Artic Gargoyle from a drum we had emptied. Works great, but I doubt you would want to buy a 55 gallon drum for over $1,000.

Total lack of commitment.

JohntheTheologian wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 3:04 pm Hetman oil has been boughten out by another company and the dealers that I spoke with either couldn't get the old style-- with the needle -- or weren't sure if the new style bottle without the needle was the same oil or not.

Seems I have heard various times before that Hetman had some major change in business, but it always ends up being not true.

What COULD easily be true is that the supplier of those oilers stopped making them.

To the threadstarter:

When is the last time those minibals were lubricated? Might need something a little heavier than the standard "lever" oil.

For a few years now (due to new EU chemical import regulations) Hetmans is no longer available in Europe. Josef Meinlschmidt took over production or import for Europe. You can get them in America now as well. Same bottels and same product line as the Hetmans with the little needle if you like.

Joe Hetman is still in business making his lubricants, but I know he has had supply issues with the needle-nosed bottles. I bought some at Dillon's music not long ago, check there. You need to know the number - #15 sounds right. 13.5 is the bearing and linkage, I have used it on the ball joints but a heavier oil would work better.

I buy small empty needle-cap squeeze bottles and refill them at home.
[My Hetman's Bearing & Linkage Oil plastic bottle cracked and started leaking after about 7 years!]

Handy & inexpensive. I can put a small refilled bottle in my trombone case, keep the rest safely at home.

Example (not the one that I bought a few years ago):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123933213568?v ... R8a96KGdZA

StephenK wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 3:49 pm Getzen premium spindle oil has the needle to be precise on the linkage.

It was recently replaced with a plastic applicator. We no longer offer the needle tip tube.

Could you please recommend any oil that I can apply to my baby….lol

Jess55 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 10:04 am Could you please recommend any oil that I can apply to my baby….lol

There is a whole gamut of oils to use on a valve.

There is oil to put down the receiver to coat the rotor and casing. For an axial it should be a light valve oil. Some people use trumpet valve oil for this purpose. Others use a good rotor oil like the French Horn players use.

There is oil to put on the valve spindle. Rotor oil works OK, but some like a slightly heavier oil.

Then there is oil to apply to the various linkages (lever, ball joints, etc.). This uses the kind of oil used by the woodwind players on their keys. Yamaha calls this linkage oil, and that's what I used for years before there was Hetman's.

Notice that I have been avoiding brand names. This was intentional. There are several manufacturers of different oils and everybody has their own favorite. Hetman's and Ultra Pure offer a variety of lubricants in different grades for each use I mentioned. Refer to their Web sites for recommendations. The condition of your "baby" will determine which grade of each lubricant is best for you.

Jess55 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 10:04 am Could you please recommend any oil that I can apply to my baby….lol

If you're looking to oil the slide, think again. Slide oil is generally only for rank beginners who haven't yet learned proper slide care. Your "baby" won't like it. Slide-o-mix and Yamaha Trombone Slide Lubricant are two very popular options for handslides, but are not oil.

Here's something I came across, for those interested in DIY:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/vie ... ?p=1329338

It gets way into the weeds but makes for an interesting read.

They are trumpeters, so take under advisement.

STP will work great on the linkages and lasts a long time.

UltraPure makes oils for valve cores, bearings/spindles, and linkages. The bottles for bearings and linkages have needles, making it easy to use.

They were just purchased by Eastman. Here’s the old link: https://www.ultrapureoils.com/

ssking2b wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 9:13 am STP will work great on the linkages and lasts a long time.

I remember that horn players ages ago used STP on the bearing and linkages. I’m sure some still do. I also remember the smell.

I’m not a chemical engineer (Bruce?) or a pulmonologist, but I would hesitate putting petroleum-based volatile compounds so near my working lungs.

Not specific to oil, and it could be an illusion of the photo angle, but it looks to me like the bent rod in between the ball joints needs to be oriented the other way so that when you engage the valve lever it rotates the stop arm immediately rather than pushing it towards the spindle first.

There isn't enough smell to notice. And don't maker the mistake of thinking today's synthetic lubes are any healthier

I will take a bold (perhaps foolish) and undoubtedly highly controversial stand here, and say that it doesn't matter a lot what oil you put on the linkages so long as it's not too thick and you do it reasonably frequently. I tend to use the same stuff that I use on piston valves -- or whatever other light oil for instruments I have lurking around. In my case this is almost always one or another variety of synthetic oil. When my current needle oiler bottle runs out (I can't remember what's in it ) I will probably switch to either my Yamaha Synthetic Light oil or the half bottle of Eco Pro 100% Plant-Based Monster Oil (which I'm now using on the rotors).

Yes, I do know all the "theory" about using exactly the right oils to oil the linkage and oil the rotors. I just don't buy that pragmatically it matters much (if at all) so long as you're keeping the instrument clean and oiling these things frequently. In this case, I believe that process is a lot more important than product.

I hope I've caused no offense with that fairly heretical view.

I do stay away from oils that are smelly, but not because I feel that they're morally inferior.

Amazon sells a bunch of very effective and inexpensive needle oiler bottles. You don't need a syringe to oil your valve.

Actually, for linkage ball-joints and the return-spring axle, you don't have to be too specific—about the viscosity or the finesse with which the lubricant is applied. A drop of "3-in-1" sewing machine oil, carefully applied (and any "splash" wiped off with a clean rag) is just as good as any of the "fancy Brand Names" and special applicators mentioned before. Although backlash is to be avoided as much as is feasible, if there is a little, a somewhat "heavier" oil will help. And, given the relatively high stiffness of the return spring, this is going to have no noticeable effect on the impedance of the linkage felt by the player.

I never put too much thought into it, just used the Hetman #15 stuff

For spindles and linkages I use sewing machine oil. It's. Little thicker than Hetmann 15 and unlike Hetmann it's easy to find

Thanks for everyone's opinions.
Sorry I'm late meanwhile this whole discusion started I enlisted to the IDF Orchestra and did basic millitery training.

TLDR, Thank You All!

Remington’s Rem Oil for firearms. Aerosol can with tube, mil spec, lasts well on French horn with mechanical valve linkage. Must be good, Smith & Wesson use it in their custom race gun shop…at least they used to.