TromboneChat

I did a search for similar threads but didn't find any, though they must be here.

So who were your trombone heroes when you were young? I had three trombone heroes in my youth (which was in the 1960s to 70s).

The first was Urbie Green, who turned the lights on for me as to how someone ought to play the trombone.

Second was Jim Pankow, the trombone player in the band Chicago, who taught me that trombone could be a serious instrument in hard rock. I grew up in the era of classic rock, so naturally this thrilled me.

And the third was Bill Watrous, whose raw ability blew my mind and forced me to grapple with either throwing my horn in the ocean or locking myself in the practice room for 10 years.

I never met or played with Urbie, but I was incredibly privileged to know and play with both Pankow and Watrous. Watrous died 6 years ago, but I'm still in touch with Pankow.

Honorable mentions go to locals where I grew up, like Dick Nash, Ralph Sauer and Byron Peebles (and Sonny Ausman just for the way he talked). Roy Main for teaching. And I also loved the teachings of Remmington (I had planned to go to Eastman to study with him but never did, thanks to Roy Main) and Marstellar. Frank Rosolino was also an idol for the incredible passion and soul he brought to the horn, but I never looked to him as a role model for playing.

Who were your formative trombone idols, and why and when?

Dick Shearer and James Pankow. All the guys in the Lawrence Welk Orchestra fascinated me even before I could lift a trombone. Mel Won in Stockton, CA. He was also a great instructor and band leader. Peggy Salmon, is now married to the great Kenton trumpeter Mike Vax. Used to sit in her section in summer jazz bands. Dang. Gal could really play....I hid down in 3rd chair

The question presupposes the existence of idols. I"m not sure I had any. When I was 14, I saw Gene Watts with the Canadian Brass. That got me really into quintets, which lead to Scott Hartman. I guess I heard Watrous on Star Trek, but it didn't do anything for me (jazz? ugh). Most of these other names I only encountered as an adult.

JJ Johnson
Frank Rosolino
Bill Watrous
Carl Fontana
Don Lusher
Urbie Green

No explanation needed

Early trombone hero was an unnamed trombonist at a Christmas parade when I was 2 or 3, who sparked my passion for trombone.

Fast forward to middle school and the lebedev concerto, Randy Hawes.

Then the Santa Clara Vangard 2018 euph soloist, happened to be best friends with my band director, and did the rimsky korsakov concerto with him my freshman year. Skylar McKinnon (unsure of spelling of last name), now playing with a navy band somewhere.

Now, Tomer Maschkowsky and Jeremy Wilson, for their expression and musicality.

There are many - this is just a small selection:

- My first trombone teacher, Siegfried Müller, who was Wechsel Posaunist (tenor/bass) at the opera and philharmonic orchestra in my hometown Essen
- Only realized this recently: Ludwig Nuss from the WDR bigband. Since I was about 15 I have been in 3 or 4 workshops with him, have met him a few more times and have had one lesson with him until now. Great person with a really impressive, somehow extremely relaxed way of playing
- Alan Kaplan. I have heard his Lonely Town recording probably 100 times and have been very fortunate to have had some lessons with him. Great person who has taught me so much. I absolutely love is ballad playing and have been absolutely surprised how great he sounds on bass.
- Stefan Schulz. Have met him a few times. One of my bass trombone sound role models, but also a great teacher with a lot of positive influence on my playing
- Ulrich Flad who I studied with for around 1.5 years. His Parsifal in Bayreuth was the best orchestral trombone playing I can imagine.
- Alain Trudel for his alto trombone recordings. That's the sound I want to achieve on alto
- Christian Lindberg as a person - I don't think there is any other trombonist with that level of energy - and as a trombonist for e g his Martin Ballade, Frumerie, Grondahl and Weber Romance
- Andy Martin and Carl Fontana for jazz playing
-And in the last years Matthew Gee has become a favorite of mine reg large tenor sound
- Almost forgot Bill Reichenbach and Uwe Fuessel, two certainly different bass trombonists whose sound and style I admire

Pankow, Watrous, DeSano

My father got me in to playing. He was a product of the bands from Texas in the 70s, and the way he could pick up a horn and make it sound beautiful even after years of not playing was truly awesome.

He introduced me to Pankow which really got me hooked, and then I heard J.J. Johnson’s solo on Satin Doll…

Lindberg and Alessi for me! Pretty stock answers for sure, but they'll always be my guiding lights.

As a kid I was always hearing my Dad's stereo playing Green, Rosolino, JJ & Kai and Zentner. At 14 I discovered Pankow. Jimmy's had the biggest influence on my playing.

officermayo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 4:25 pm As a kid I was always hearing my Dad's stereo playing Green, Rosolino, JJ & Kai and Zentner. At 14 I discovered Pankow. Jimmy's had the biggest influence on my playing.

My dad loved Si Zentner. He tried to get me into Si Zentner, too, and even took me to one of Si's gigs. But I didn't care. I was infatuated with Urbie Green, and the only good thing about Si Zenter was that he said he knew Urbie Green. So when I met him, all I did was ask him about Urbie Green.

At that concert my dad took me to, Zentner had a trombone player in his band named Billy Watrous. I didn't care about sidemen, either. Just Urbie. LOL!

My dad had a Glenn Miller album that must have helped me choose trombone. As a teenager I couldn't get enough James Pankow and later Bill Watrous. I got to play with Watrous in college in 1977. Thrill of my life at the time!

I saw Christian Lindberg play with the National Symphony in DC in 2003, I believe, when I was 15. I only knew of him from the one CD my teacher played for me, so I was expecting trombone and piano, Pryor solos. I didn't know what a trombone concerto was. Kalevi Aho didn't write Pryor solos . The impact was so great, not just on me, but the whole section and a lot of our strings players, that I have been a huge fan of his ever since. I went and listened to all of his recordings, and really got interested in his work on avant garde music.

From there I learned about Abbie Conant and her "Street Scene for the Last Mad Soprano", and went down a different rabbit hole of avant garde music. Her recordings of the classic "legit" rep are also great.

I also learned about Yamamoto Ko-ichirou in Japan when I was doing a short trip as in interpreter for a machine tool company at age 19. He is the principal in Seattle now, I believe, and he has an incredible sound.

It wasn't until just last year that I learned that both Abbie and Ko-ichirou attended the same trombone camp run by Lindberg in the early 90's, and were his students as adults. And those were the three I listened to the most.

I remember be amazed at the sound of Nick Hudson on some live concerts I heard him in. Played a couple of massed band gigs on Euphonium in front of John Barber which was one of the reasons I picked up the trombone.

One of the first CDs I owned was a Kai Winding album. I pretty much wore that disc out.

WilliamLang wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 4:02 pm Lindberg and Alessi for me! Pretty stock answers for sure, but they'll always be my guiding lights.

Amen.

I’ll add Markey, although his first CD didn’t happen until half way through undergrad.

James Pankow. I was born in 1967 and my grandparents gave me a Chicago album for my birthday when I was probably 5 or 6. When the time came to pick an instrument in 5th grade it was going to be Saxophone, Trumpet or Trombone because that’s what Chicago had. Since my older brother played trumpet that left 2 to pick from and I picked Trombone. I wore out my Chicago albums trying to imitate Jimmy. Then my older brother introduced me to Bill Watrous and the Manhattan Wild Life Refuge! Then came Urbie Green (The Fox album).

Roberts, Watrous, and Dick Shearer.

AL Grey and then a big gap. I didn't have too much exposure to quality playing in high school.

Although I began listening to trombone players almost as soon as I started playing, my heroes were the players who came through to my small, isolated city to teach at our summer music camp. One of them stayed in town to conduct our community orchestra and was my first teacher when I was in grade 7.

Those beautiful sounds felt live during lessons and when they played recitals during the camps, still form the biggest part of the mental picture I have for my tone. Coincidentally, they all happened to be Eastman grads or students of Eastman grads so that happened.

Kingfan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 2:38 pm Pankow, Watrous, DeSano

I studied with DeSano in my junior and senior high school years. I don't think he was playing in the orchestra anymore, but he was a wealth of knowledge. I still play on a DE lexan rim because of him and I've had mine since 1997!

I grew up in rural Northern California. Most of my heroes I knew from recordings:

As a kid
Armin Rosin
Denis Wick
James Pankow
Frank Rosolino
Bill Watrous
J.J. Johnson
Kai Winding
James “Jimmie” Pugh

As a young adult I added to the list:
Chicago sections
NY Phil Sections
Joe Alessi
Christian Lindberg
Ralph Sauer
Jeff Reynolds
George Roberts
Ray Premru via Phillip Jones

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:59 am I grew up in rural Northern California. Most of my heroes I knew from recordings:

As a kid
Armin Rosin
Denis Wick
James Pankow
Frank Rosolino
Bill Watrous
J.J. Johnson
Kai Winding
James “Jimmie” Pugh

As a young adult I added to the list:
Chicago sections
NY Phil Sections
Joe Alessi
Christian Lindberg
Ralph Sauer
Jeff Reynolds
George Roberts
Ray Premru via Phillip Jones

Where in rural NorCal did you grow up? I'm from L.A. but living in rural NorCal now. Jeff Reynolds is a friend of mine, and he lives in rural NorCal now, too!

Jim Pugh was a great player who doesn't get enough recognition, IMHO.

My dad was in the service when I was born. We lived in Irvine CA in the early ‘70’s, then moved up to Eureka CA. I saw Jim Pugh when Woody Herman’s Thundering Herd came through and stopped at Humboldt State University (now Cal Poly Humboldt ). I must have been a sophomore in HS. We had a VHS tape (!) of the WHTH from a live concert at a jazz festival. I wore that tape out.

Jeff Reynolds’s brother—Jim?—used to teach at Arcata HS, just across the bay from Eureka. Jim invited Jeff up to stay, and Jeff arranged to give a master class and concert at HSU. I think I was a junior. He played Folke Rabe’s Bolos with three locals. That was special. At his master class, he played a few excerpts, including the Tchaik 6th descending solo. I had never heard anything so big and beautiful. I still have that sound in my head.

I live in Vancouver WA now. I still have friends and a brother in Humboldt Co.

Lee Morgan.

Digidog wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:25 amLee Morgan.

Ummmmm…

My first trombone teacher. Not much trombone music available at the time, but got to hear George Roberts and a little later Jeff Reynolds. They became my sound ideal. On tenor Denis Wick and Ralph Sauer. The Ballads of Bill Watrous and Urbie Green. After that came youtube, spotify and now there are so many I listen to. Will not single out anyone, but many well-known trombonists and unknowns who sound incredibly good. But still listen a lot to the old ones.

Leif

I began playing trombone in 2006, which was a fortunate time as YouTube had just been created. I remember listening to a lot of Christian Lindberg, Joe Alessi, and Nils Landgren, as they all had videos out at that time. A few years later Alan Raph began a video series, that was really influential for me. By the later high school years I was listening to Jorgen Van Rijen, Ian Bousfield, Michael Bequet, Achilles Liarmakopoulus Ben Van Dijk, Brandt Attema, and Urbie Green. All helped get my musical ideas and sound concept much more formed.

College years I really focused on the musicianship of people like Stefan Schulz and Dave Taylor.

These days, anything that is musically and artistically creative get me excited to make music. Michael Buchanan's CD along with Jeremy Wilson's content are my go-tos.

WilliamLang wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 4:02 pm Lindberg and Alessi for me! Pretty stock answers for sure, but they'll always be my guiding lights.

Same here. I'll add Bill Watrous to that, because he was the first big-time trombonist that I saw live, and when I was in high school I would listen to his recordings daily.

Ralph Sauer
Christian Lindberg
Tutti's Trombones*

*I know, this isn't an artist but I listened to this record constantly as a kid.

I forgot, Carol Jarvis also inspired me to work on my lip trills and technique when I was 16-17. I've played her version of this solo on alto, tenor, and even bass (same register regardless) for years and years now.



So my fourth hero! Nowhere near as good as her, but here I am coming off bass at the very end of a long BQ recital:

mcphatty00 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:55 am

Kingfan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 2:38 pm Pankow, Watrous, DeSano

I studied with DeSano in my junior and senior high school years. I don't think he was playing in the orchestra anymore, but he was a wealth of knowledge. I still play on a DE lexan rim because of him and I've had mine since 1997!

I studied with him in the 70s. I just talked to him a few weeks ago and hope to take him to lunch soon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_DeSano

Kingfan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:40 pm

mcphatty00 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:55 am

I studied with DeSano in my junior and senior high school years. I don't think he was playing in the orchestra anymore, but he was a wealth of knowledge. I still play on a DE lexan rim because of him and I've had mine since 1997!

I studied with him in the 70s. I just talked to him a few weeks ago and hope to take him to lunch soon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_DeSano

That's fantastic! Really great guy.

tbdana wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:06 am

Digidog wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:25 amLee Morgan.

Ummmmm…

Seriously.

Noone; not my teachers, not my parents, not the town I grew up in, nor my orchestral directors tipped me off on records or performances with trombonists to listen to and get impressions from. I had no idea what music was played on a trombone in the first five years of playing besides quartet adaptations of songs and band or orchestral pieces. It wasn't until late in high school I found a record with Lee Morgan and Wayne Shorter, and thought "this is how I'd like to play, in this kind of music".

That record ran hot on my plate for over a year, before I found a Tommy Dorsey record and began to realize that the trombone was an instrument of its own merits.

So my musical influences on my instrument are rock, and hard rock guitarists and trumpeters like Lee, Booker Little, Freddie Hubbard, Fats Navarro, Clifford Brown and so on. It wasn't until I got into musical college that I began to seriously learn about jazz trombonists and the classical trombone repertoire.

All this is the effect on growing up in a small, rural town where there actually was a very good big band but not people around me to encourage me to listen to them and no teachers that gave me impulses on what my instrument was played like by others, and how it would and could sound played by others. I have through education and professionally often been criticised for not playing idiomatically on my trombone, but nowdays I don't care.

Fred Wesley.
I watched a lot My First Name is Maceo and he's the one that made the trombone fun to me.

Jack TeagardenJ and Glenn Miller!

My earliest influence was Bob Havens from the Welk show.
Urbie, of course. I had the great opportunity to play with Urbie when I was in High School and 4 times after that.
Jimmy Pankow, Dave Bargeron and Larry Smith from the Band Lighthouse
Pankow was a very big influence not only on my playing but also my writing
Watrous. Wayne Henderson then I discovered quite by chance 2 players that exposed me to a whole new world of trombone
Albert Mangeldorf and Grachan Moncur III - there was something in their playing that really spoke to me.
and Bob Brookmeyer

Bill Watrous was my inspiration to want to play the trombone. Merv Griffin used to frequently feature him, and when Lillian Briggs was in town, she would join him. (I really wish there were recordings of the two of them, because my pre-teen self would literally dance in the living room when they played!)
Also listened to Jimmy Pankow/Chicago, Urbie, George Roberts, and my grandmother's Tommy Dorsey 78's.

JJ, Watrous, Pankow and the 21 Trombones albums!

At first it was Joseph Alessi, it turns out his style is not my cup of tea. Then, Lindberg has been my hero till now (when i first heard his Vivaldi Winter, i know he is the one). Last but not least, i found myself like the French style so much recently and Jean Raffard will be my third one as his sound really dissolves me and make my tears out.

My teacher, Maisie Ringham
Glenn Miller
Don Lusher
George Roberts
Chris Riddle
Denis Wick
Dudley Bright
Lindsey Shilling
Chris Mowat
Ray Premru
Bob Hughes
Frank Mathison

I began to study trombone in 1975. I did not know about any trombone players back then besides Don Lusher who played "I'm Gettjng Sentimental over you" on a record we had with the Joe Loss Orchestra. I played that record over and over and I think that was the first real raw model besides my grandfather who played "ventil basun", an old valve trombone by the Swedish brand Ahlberg & Olsson.

Later I came to study with Sven Larsson who at the time (1980-ish) was one of North Europes most hired basstrombonists. He immediately became my raw model on bass and was until I graduated from the Royal Accademy of Music. Now he is one of my closest frends. At that time I also listened a lot to Branimir Slokar for his great sound on alto. I had all his records. He became my raw model for alto and it is still that sound I strive for when I pick up an alto, but I didn't like his tenor trombone playing much.

1982 I had been accepted at the Royal Academy of music. Me and my trombone playing friend, who also had been accepted, overheard there was going to be a diploma concert, free of charge held by a young trombonist in one of the mid sized study rooms at the accademy. We thought it would be interesting to know how good you were supposed to be to study there, especially how good you could expect to be just when graduated. We were shocked. It was Chistian Lindberg who was that young unknown trombonist. It was in a room with not more than 30 seats. He played the most advanced concertos I had ever heard live with piano accompaniment. It was a long concert and it was absolutley perfect, It was clean, virtous, musical and to me something I never forget. Me and my friend left the building in shock. This was the competition we had to face, this was how good we were supposed to be. After this Christian soon became a world soloist and I collected all his records, and of course he became one of my raw models. Besides this I found a record with Miles Andersson called "Miles Andersson plays his tenor trombone again" that became a favourite. He is doing all playing on a small Williams trombone on that record. I just love that sound.

After I graduated I met and played with the best freelancers in jazz in Stockholm and learned a lot from them just by sitting next to them and listen; Olle Holmquist, Torgny Nilsson, Lasse Olofsson, Bengt Edvardsson and Sven Larsson. They were on most of the commercial jazz and pop records between years 1965-1990.

Later I added Åke Persson to my list of raw models. It was after I heard the records made between the years 1957-1959 by the Swedizh Radio Big Band. This is probably the best Swedish Big Band ever existed and professionally recorded. It was led by Harry Arnold and you can hear the faboulous lead trombone sound by Åke Persson. There are also all the records of Quincy Jones with his "Free and Easy Orchestra", but I think Åke was on second in that band and Jimmy Cleaveland was on first. Åke can also be heard in the sixties on lead with "The Francis Bohland - Kenny Clarke Big Band". The section was Åke Persson, Nat Pec and Erik van Lier, a most stunning three part trombone section. Åke is my raw modell for a lead sound. He is a good solist too, but the strong lead on those records is what folks talk about.
Besides all these Åke Persson records I also listened to Bill Watrous, Urbie Green, Carl Fontana, Frank Rosolini, JJ, The Kai Winding trombones and many more who all probably know of.

Today Håkan Björkman is somewhat of a model to me even though I'm no longer aspiring to be a professional musiscian. He is first trombone with The Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra and plays a 0.508 Yamaha 892ZX on first. His sound is fantastc on that horn and since I also play small equipment I feel we have a mutual sound concept. I like the small bore sound a lot and therefore today I'm influenced by him. I even bought that same model he plays.

/Tom

Urbie Green, Carl Fontana, Phil Wilson, George Roberts, Tony Studd, Dick Hixon, Jack Teagarden

First, there was J.J. Johnson. Then, in my teenage years, there was obviously Carl Fontana and finally, I admired the innovation and energy of Slide Hampton.

None growing up. These days, I’m an admirer of Bob McC, although not so much for his blazing speed.

I just had lunch with my trombone hero. I hadn't seen him in probably 30 years. He is 80 now and not in the best of health. I suggest that any of you who had teachers who influenced you positively as youth to give them a call, take them to lunch, send them a letter or e-mail, etc. Jim told me a kid he taught as a jr. high student back in the 60's called him to thank him - the kid just retired after a a 30+ year career as a successful high school band director. It was obvious Jim was pleased. Reach out and let them know how much they meant to you before it is too late.

Kingfan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 4:59 pm I just had lunch with my trombone hero. I hadn't seen him in probably 30 years. He is 80 now and not in the best of health. I suggest that any of you who had teachers who influenced you as youth to give them a call, take them to lunch, send them a letter or e-mail, etc. Jim told me a kid he taught as a jr. high student back in the 60's called him to thank him - the kid just retired after a a 30+ year career as a successful high school band director. It was obvious Jim was pleased. Reach out and let them know how much they meant to you before it is too late.

Sadly, I have only had four trombone teachers this far in my life and my playing, and of those there are only two whom I would recognize and thank like this; one of which is since long passed (fortunately I got to play for him in a concert once, but when I tried to meet him afterwards, he was in too poor health and had already left for home), and one who now is old and I maybe should pay a visit to.

Of those other two, one was a happy-go-lucky funny-guy with a drinking habit, and one was a self centered egotist with no intentions of, and abilities for, helping a young trombonist finding his way on the instrument; a teacher who almost ruined my college studies and made me lay down playing. For all I care they can both wallow in their own miseries.

@imsevimse knows three of those mentioned.

Larry Watson. He was my teacher in Jr. High and HS.

My heroes were Christian Lindberg and Urbie Green, mainly from the recordings I was able to get and listen to. Back in the mid 90s there wasn't much out there, no internet, and my parents were not big into classical or jazz. My high school teacher / private trombone teacher got me into Urbie Green and JJ, and other trombone friends turned me on to Lindberg. I had a tape of his that I wore out, and I borrowed a copy of 21 Trombones Vol 2 from my high school teacher, which I then made a copy of as well on tape, which I wore out.

I have sadly never gotten to see Christian Lindberg live, something I really do need to do. I did see Urbie Green live, long ago, also in the mid 90s, when the Thursday Evening club had a jazz concert held, and brought in Urbie Green, Jon Faddis (trumpet), Doc Cheatham (Trumpet), and some other players I sadly can't remember.

If you can see Christian and Roland do a recital, it's pretty awesome. The last one I saw was so good that I asked for sheet music for two of the pieces through their publishers, only to get a hilarious response from Edition Tarrodi: "oh we're sorry, the Nutcracker Suite arrangement exists only in their heads -- So it will probably never be available but I will ask"

The other one was a piece that Roland Pöntinen wrote that unfortunately exists in pencil on paper and an almost finished finale score file that became corrupted before it was finished.

Those guys are incredible live

Urbie Green
Bruce Eidem
Bill Watrous

That's in the order I heard of them. In the case of Bruce, I played with him in a youth symphony. He went on to be a top pro in New York.

If you don't know who Bruce is, you should find out. I do not know if he is still playing, but I hope he is. As far as I can tell, he never created his own online presence. He was probably too busy playing. Lots of broadway musical gigs. I never sat next to a trombonist who sounded better than Bruce, and he was just in high school at the time. His tone had a certain sparkle to it.

Another player I grew up with, but who became a trombone hero later, is John Gohl. John had a distinguished career as an Air Force trombonist. Here is a short bio on John: https://www.music.af.mil/Home/Biographi ... john-gohl/

John and I played in high school and college together. At some point in college, John's playing started to surpass mine, because he was both talented and had a superb work ethic. One remarkable thing I remember is John's ability to play bass trombone parts in jazz ensemble with a 6-1/2AL mouthpiece on a .547 horn. He could produce a fat in-tune low C with his slide all the way out, lipping it down a bit but somehow keeping a really good sound. AND he could execute this quite fast. I tried to duplicate it and absolutely could not.

Growing up, I knew about JJ Johnson but hadn't heard him play.

One of my greatest regrets in the trombone realm is having a chance to speak with Urbie Green, but not doing so. I passed it up out of shyness. I believe the year was 1980 when he came to Fargo ND. I was part of the 20-trombone ensemble (we might not have had exactly 20) backing him. He was not in good playing shape and he stated his house had burned down. But the show had to go on. So he bravely went out and played -- nothing like the stellar playing he did several years earlier when he had visited the same town. I think the main force behind getting Urbie to town was Orville "Orv" Eidem, Bruce Eidem's dad. Orv was the director of the North Dakota State band and a fine trombonist himself.

After I grew up, I learned about many more players. The more I hear and learn, the more I appreciate the players and the instrument.

When I first heard the Marshall Gilkes solo on Bonehemian Rhapsody, my mind was blown. I had previously heard and have since heard other great stuff, but that is some mighty fine trombone playing right there.