TromboneChat

I'm going into my freshman year of highschool and for that I want to upgrade my trombone. I am currently playing on a really basic yamaha beginner horn. I am more focused on jazz rather than regular concert band and I'm hoping this summer I'll be able to get a better horn for jazz. I've thought about purchasing a shires custom small bore. My questions now are 1. is my idea of purchasing the shires custom good. 2. If its not what.are some other horns I should look at.

P.S. I am currently using a shilke 40B mouthpiece as a lead mouthpiece and yamaha 48 S for concert band.

The Yamaha 354 (or 200AD) is excellent for jazz. I don't see any reason to change unless you really want to. If Doug Elliott can win an audition to the Airmen of Note on one it should be good enough for you at this stage.

If you are looking for another horn that is suitable for jazz (particularly 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in Big Band) you could consider:

Bach 6, 8, 12, or 16
Benge 170
Conn 4H, 6H, 10H, 12H, 24H, 48H (and lots of others)
Getzen 1050
Holton 65, 67 Stratodyne, 69
King 2B, 2B Plus, 3B
Martin Committee, Urbie Green
Olds Reording, Radio, Super, Studio
Reynolds Argenta
Yamaha 651, 653, 691, 695, 697, 891, 897

And there are lots of others that will cost a lot less than the Shires or Edwards.

Don't worry about your horn and practice more. It's more about you than the horn, given what you have. Diminishing returns at this point. Save your money.

If you want to improve playing trombone and insist on doing it with equipment, have your teacher see if your slide needs work. A good, fast slide actually will help you play and sound better, whether you've been playing for a few weeks or for 50+ years.

I wouldn't worry about a new horn just yet. Give it a couple more years.

Ditto the advice given above about improving yourself before you get a different horn. I'd also add - if you're just going into Sr. High now, you aren't finished growing/developing. In a few years, you may NEED a different horn based on how you and your body has developed.

WerdWerdWerd wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 3:11 pm I am currently using a shilke 40B mouthpiece

Holy cow!

Don't let the glitz of owning an expensive horn rule your thinking.
The Yamaha is a very capable horn.
Your mouthpiece selections seem rather extreme.
I'd spend a lot less money with a specialist who can recommend the ideal mouthpiece for your particular embouchure. If you decide to do that, those specialists are on this forum, and at least one of them will do it Online, via Skype.

Sometimes getting a new horn is good if it lets you practice more.
Consult with your teacher if you have one.

The first thing I'd do would be to set aside the tiny Schilke 40B mouthpiece, and replace it with a more reasonably-sized piece. Even your Yamaha 48S would be better, even for lead trombone. Then ... follow the advice of your trombone teacher (not your band director unless he/she is a trombonist) or the previous posters on this thread. Unless your Yamaha "student horn" needs servicing / repairing, you might be wise to stick with it for a year or two as you grow and become more physically capable. A good teacher can guide you.

A "Shires custom" trombone is way beyond your needs at this point (and much too expensive!).

I agree with the suggestions regarding mouthpieces. A Schilke 40B is very small and very shallow.

Regarding a new horn, it really depends on your plans. Yamaha, Getzen, and other makers offer step-up horns that have professional qualities but are not as expensive. The Yamaha 445 and 447 are good straight options (.525 and .547 bore, respectively). Also their Allegro trombones are a good option.

More importantly, I’d suggest finding a good teacher and asking for guidance.

You're going to be only a freshman in high school? The Yamaha 354 is perfectly fine for you. Like others have said, get rid of that tiny 40b mouthpiece and use the 48s for lead playing instead.

Agreed if the slide on your current horn is good/great you’re fine. If it can’t be made better than consider a new to you used horn. King/Conn/Getzen all are good affordable used options. If you are playing lead 48/6.5 AL is fine but you could consider going even smaller (7c).

The advice here is great. Bruce’s list of horns is fantastic. If the 354 slide is not where you think it should be, King 2b and 3b trombones can be had in good usable condition for $800 to $1400. They won’t hold you back, they’re traditional jazz horns, and they’re fine. My Shires that I purchased new is 0.500 inch bore similar to your 354. It has a great slide and is a good horn. I play on a King 2b or a 0.480-0.488 bore Bart van Lier almost all the time. There are 0.500 inch bore BVLs for a lot less money than Shires. I played a 79H for something three years ago. If I think I need more of a “west coast” sound, I will most probably take my Yamaha 653. You might consider one of the 0.500 bore Greenhoe trombones manufactured by Schilke.

If you think Shires is the trombone for you and you have the money for it, that could be a marriage made in heaven. And I wish you the best.

I would recommend that you get a Bach 11C, Bach 7C, Faxx 7C, or Schilke 47 mouthpiece. (Or Bach 12C). And stick with it for a while, whether you stay on the 354 or go to Shires. Best of luck to you, no matter what.

I don't like the idea of just sticking with his current Yamaha. It's our responsibility as musicians to support the trombone-industrial complex. WerdWerdWerd has reached the freshman milestone where teacher recommendations and peer pressure compel each ambitious student to get their parents to cut a check (does anyone still write checks?). If we let students get through high school without buying at least one more horn, the industry will surely collapse.

I got my XO bass bone my freshman year of HS (for stupid cheap, thanks horn guys!). Had its ups and downs but it always gave me one thing. Every problem was mine, no blaming a horn for any issues. Every issue I’ve had with it has been a me problem. A shires custom may not be the right way forward, but a solid dependable horn is. A horn that makes you find the problem in your playing and not the horn/mouthpiece.

That said my friend played his Yamaha “step up” horn (no clue what it was) until very recently, in his 3rd year of undergrad. He got a king 3b and it’s a match made in heaven.

I told my dad I wanted a new pro horn. He said, I'll bet a pro would sound good on any horn. I got the horn. I think he was right.

Conn invested in their future when they promoted the school music program around WWII. The demise of school music would most probably be a greater threat to the industry than failure to upgrade. As long as some form of music education exists, some discretionary income exists, and music remains addictive, upgrades will continue to occur.

Every year we do a fundraiser for students who cannot afford private lessons. We play one or two charts together. Every year it is a new batch of students, and every year they get better. As good as a 354 is, or as good as a Holton Super Collegiate was for me, I would encourage the original poster to upgrade to at least a King 2B or 3B in good playing condition. Peace.