Vincent Bach Mercedes Trombone, buy or pass?

[berntd]

Hello folks,

I can buy a Bach USA Mercedes Trombone. Looks really old and no mouthpiece.
But m]hmm, should I ?
I read in this forum that is is a slight bit down from a Stradivarius, (I have as a 36 = Meeh).
I also have Bach TB600 (= naah).
Is the Mercedes up or down from that?

I play trad jazz and I do not really have space left for more instruments but interesting trombones are a passion.

What do you folks think?

Best regards
Bernt

[BGuttman]

If the 36 is meh and the TB600 is naah, leave the Mercedes where it is. You probably won't like it and it's pretty old (>40 years).

[greenbean]

Well, there was a Mercedes that looked pretty much like a Stradivarius. Most parts appeared to be the same and the engraving was the same style. Those are great. There was also a Mercedes II that were a bit less exciting.

[JohnL]

There was also a Mercedes II that were a bit less exciting.

I seem to recall the Mercedes II I encountered a few years back had more of a Bundy vibe..

[berntd]

This is just engraved "Mercedes" Vincent Bach USA.
Not Mercedes II, if that was ever even a thing.

How tell?
See picture.

Regards
Bernt

[berntd]

If the 36 is meh and the TB600 is naah, leave the Mercedes where it is. You probably won't like it and it's pretty old (>40 years).

I play Olds and King.

[JohnL]

...Mercedes II, if that was ever even a thing.

mercedesii.jpg

(From this Reverb listing.

Note the "Bundy-style" braces and cork barrel...

Of course, you could have found that out yourself in a couple minutes using Google, but I guess it was easier to imply that I'm a liar.

[greenbean]

Okay, here is an earlier New York Mercedes. It's very different than the one above.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oLA8Jyd3r8gSFA5U2

This one played like a Stradivarius model!

[Mamaposaune]

The original Mercedes (not Mercedes ll) was basically a 36 without the nickle-silver trim on the bell section. But, if you consider the 36 just meh, obviously you won't like this one either.
Bach made an intermediate model called the 836 during the 80's, I bought one used for my son when he started H.S., and thought it played as well as my 36B. The differences were: 2-piece bell; lack of nickle trim on the bell section; and chrome plating on the handgrip. These rarely show up for sale, but can be a real bargain. (I sold his when he wanted to switch to bass and replaced it with a Yamaha 421, also a good bargain)
Like JohnL already stated, the Mercedes II was basically a bloated Bundy. The F-attachment version has a very uncomfortable trigger placement, IMO.

[hornbuilder]

The Mercedes bell was a 2 piece construction, as opposed to the regular Bach 1 piece construction. Another small money saving feature

[berntd]

I see.

That marking ibn my picture looks pretty identical to the Mercedes II shown by JohnL.
I will pass on this one.

Thank you folks for all the help.

Best regards
Bernt

[baileyman]

From a couple sitings, the NY Mercedes seems to use a much tighter throat bell mandrel, so it can really bark. But I'm not sure that is always true. Some have reported them being just like a fully yellow 12.

[Pieter]

I see.

That marking ibn my picture looks pretty identical to the Mercedes II shown by JohnL.
I will pass on this one.

The marking on the bells is the same. But compare how the slides look. Not the same trombones.
But if you don't like your current Bach 36 - why consider another similarly sized Bach?

[MrHCinDE]

I’m wondering which version I have. Mine has a medium bore slide and an 8” two-piece bell. The cork barrel and slide crook look quite Bach shaped to me. The tuning slide is a good fit on my Bach 42. It’s not pretty. I got it for very little money and it’s my “Fasching” horn. The sound and playability is pretty decent. I’m thinking of putting it through a basic slide service which would turn it into a very usable instrument.

IMG_1497.jpeg

IMG_1498.jpeg

IMG_1499.jpeg

The one posted by the OP looks a lot like mine. If the slide is decent and it’s cheap I think it might be worth trying out.

[greenbean]

Looks like a good one!...

[hornbuilder]

There were a couple of versions. The one you have, the slide was made with 36 parts. The inner slide section was chrome plated, and they "may" have used brass parts, instead of nickel silver. I've seen 2 examples where it was chrome plated brass, and one example of chrome plated nickel silver. Either way, the slide "should" be pretty good

[berntd]

The marking on the bells is the same. But compare how the slides look. Not the same trombones.
But if you don't like your current Bach 36 - why consider another similarly sized Bach?

The lure of some possibly interesting instrument is always attractive.

In particular if I find a Bach 6 (or was it 8?) trombone.

The 36 is not a bad instrument but it just does not pop like the Olds or Kings - in my opinon.

Best regards
Bernt