looking for bass trombone advice - update!

[Supermanalito]

For update - see my comment below.

Original post -
I am looking for advice from this educated collective on narrowing down a model of bass trombone to purchase. A little about me... I currently play first in a big band in my area on a 3b silver sonic that I purchased last summer. My whole section plays king SS and it's a really cool sound. I also play 3 or 4 pit orchestras every year for musicals and in a community symphony that my wife wanted to join.

For lower playing... I play the tuba parts on a large silver Besson sovereign Euphonium with a DE LB 112 rim and LB cup 8 shank. I am currently borrowing that horn from a friend (a great friend as it's a beautiful instrument) and that sounds really nice in the brass quintet. The mouthpiece is magic for producing a tuba like sound and range for me. I haven't played any bass trombone and know I will have to put in a lot of time to feel comfortable on it... but I'm excited about that. The symphony has a need for a bass trombone player and it's pretty low level compared to what I'm used to playing so I thought that would be a good place to start right away. I also have turned down pit work in the past because bass trombone is what they needed and I haven't played that. I would like a horn with a nice slide and capable of doing the type of playing I'm talking about. It's possible I may want it for big band at some point as well thought I'm currently pretty happy playing lead there.

I would like to know from more experienced players what make/model of horn I should target if possible. My budget is $3,500 or so (or less if I don't need to spend that much) I do have a beautiful Williams model 4 to trade or sell. I could buy and sell it a bit later, but as sweet as the model 4 sounds... I'm just not using it and can't afford to have all this money tied up in brass.

TL;DR I would like some advice on which bass trombone to buy for an experienced tenor player with good breath support.

[Kingfan]

I am highly biased towards Kings, but I must say I am enjoying going low on my independent valve King 7B. I had a Holton TR-180 that i enjoyed a lot, and I see a TR-181 for sale in your price range on this site.

[ddsbstrb]

Kingfan, I was never impressed with the trigger set-up on a stock King Duo-Gravis. I know a lot of them were converted to split triggers, which are more convenient than side by side triggers. I think the 7B-8B model came with split triggers? The Benge bass trombones were pretty good instruments and can be a great bargain, just like the Benge F-attachment tenor trombones. As stated above, the Holton TR-180's were great trombones if they had been converted into split triggers. A lot of those came with that Glantz disaster trigger. Great horn, terrible trigger system.

Some early Yamaha's were good doubler trombones, like the YBL-611 (also need the triggers, split), and the YBL-612, which some might have come with the triggers, split, so may not have. I have owned both a TR-180 and a YBL-611, with both having the triggers, split. I played a lot of gigs in my early career on these, two, bass trombones. You do have to watch those early Yamaha Bass Trombones, as they were noted for slide stocking bad plating. You will find some with a lot of brass showing through on the slide stockings. Not so much on the Holton's I have played.

Good luck and keep us posted on what you decide. BTW, I never owned any of the King bass trombones, even though I totally dug my King 3b, from the 1960's I used in my early trombone career, before switching to bass trombone in 1972,

[BGuttman]

The King 7B and 8B came with split triggers from the get-go. I played my King 7B for some 30 years in orchestra, concert band, big band, and even as a double in quintet where I switched off on F-tuba (some pieces worked better on tuba, others on bass trombone).

There are some who actually like the Glantz Bar on the Holton TR-180. I never had one so I can't comment.

[Burgerbob]

3500 covers a lot of good basses.

[GabrielRice]

3500 covers a lot of good basses.

Ba-dum-bum.

It sure does. And the Elliot mouthpiece you're playing on the euphonium will work great.

The Shires Q series are great. I'd probably go for that.

[Briande]

Don’t look past the Duo Gravis option. I primarily play tenor in a big band but play bass in another band and have a Duo Gravis. I think it plays “smaller” than some other basses I’ve played but still gets an iconic bass sound for big band.

[Fridge]

I agree with Gabe. The Q series are very nice.

Fridge

[Supermanalito]

Kind of took a bit of a step back because I was getting excited to buy the next bass I saw lol. There is a collection in my area being sold that contains a bach 50b3o that is in great shape, but I felt like I was rushing into it because it was available, but maybe not the right bass for me right now.

Right now I think I would like to play a duo gravis before I buy something online. My local music shop said they were cleaning one up for sale and it might be ready soon... I think I'll give that a try before I decide to buy anything sight unseen. Looking around it seems the shires q series is a little more available if I want one now. Also interested in the TR180 but would love to hold one before buying it. I think that's my short list for now. I will be on the hunt but I think I will wait to play that king locally before I buy anything.

Thanks a ton for the great responses here.

[tomato]

I have two TR 180.in excellent condition .if you want one

[Supermanalito]

I have two TR 180.in excellent condition .if you want one

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I may indeed be interested in one of these horns. I sent you a PM for specifics and details.

[MrBadger]

I would strongly recommend a new Rath R900 which is just over $3k - I bought one to double on and it's. a fantastic instrument (I retired my TR181 which I've had for 20+ years as soon as I got the R900 out of the case).

[deanmccarty]

I would go with a Rath R900 or a Getzen 1052

[Supermanalito]

Just wanted to post an update since I said I would in the comments. I ended up buying the silver plated duo gravis from oompaloompia on here that was in pretty rough condition (as advertised). I took it to Graham Middleton who lives less than an hour away to go through it and give it some love. He cleaned it, rebuilt the slide, did some trouble shooting on the rotors and levers, had to resolder and straighten a few joints that were leaking air on the bell and the spit valve, align the tuning slides and put a patch on a fairly major crack in the main tuning slide. I'm so grateful to have someone with the expertise to do all of that nearby. I feel so lucky to live near such a talented and experienced trombone technician.

I'm happy to say I just got it back last week and I'm super happy with it so far. I had to get a "K" shank for the DE mouthpiece I had and once again you guys came through. It plays BIG when I want it... Which will do for most of the playing I'm currently engaged it (pit orchestras, big band, and new orleans style). I can tell now that I will need to work hard on tone concept if I want to use this for orchestra playing... Or get a different horn all together, but I will cross that bridge when I get to it. For now I'm pleased playing with my new toy. Taking it for its maiden voyage on a float for the local 4th of July parade this week. Our tuba player dropped out of our Dixieland float so I will be laying down the bass lines... Not an ideal situation, but it will be fun to play those parts in the parade and provide some foundation for the other players to noodle around over.

So yeah... Thanks for all of the advice on here and I'm pleased to have community around to ask questions and provide a wealth of knowledge. Thanks!