Playability of different trombones

[natanaiel]

Hi all,

I was searching for an answer but couldn’t find one on this matter:

Is the playability between instruments that different between different brands if so, how could you describe it? (Ease to play, feedback, sound that is coming out) in the context of classical/orchestral/solo playing.

I am more interested in you opinion on following trombones:
Edwards T396A and AR
Edwards T350HB
Shires Alessi
Shires Chicago with axial
Bach 42A
Courtois New York with screw Bell

I know that everything depends on the player since I myself play freelancing.
But I am very curious to find like some general opinions people have on those instruments.

Thanks all!

[sirisobhakya]

Playability can be different for 2 horns of the same model from same brand…

I have tried 2 42Bs back to back. Entirely different in both sound and feedback. I have also tried 4 Yamaha YBL-830 bass trombones, not back to back but two at a time. Entirely different as well.

If you want to buy a now horn, try as many as much as you can.

[gbedinger]

I’ve always considered playability to be an individual thing. A very playable instrument might be difficult for another. I used to have a Holton 183 that was the most playable trombone I’d ever played, even more so than my 169. I couldn’t say why, just that it was.-

[Gameboy64]

I’ve played a couple horns at shows, events, and festivals and like said previously, even if a horn is the same model, it can play way different. I personally found a really nice Bach 42 for myself, and I love it. I’ve also played awful ones, with just an awful, stuffy feel. I can say the same about the Alessi model as well; I’ve played some great ones, but quite a few bad ones as well.

Try the horn out before you buy it for the best mileage for you. Each will ALWAYS very in something (sound, feel, exc).

[tbdana]

Horns are like lovers. The best horn is the one that gives you the things that you need. The one that feels good, the one that does the things you like, the one that turns you on, the one that's always there for you even on your bad days, the one that supports you when you're struggling, the one that brags about you. Finding the best infinite tube is like finding your soul mate. They are all individuals, even horns of the same make and model. The one that's best is the one that checks all your personal boxes.

So go with the 42A.

[harrisonreed]

The Edwards horns give you the HB, which is basically like having the most adaptable instrument in the world.

If I could do it over, I'd get the Edwards Oft model. But I love my 396A.

[natanaiel]

Playability can be different for 2 horns of the same model from same brand…

I have tried 2 42Bs back to back. Entirely different in both sound and feedback. I have also tried 4 Yamaha YBL-830 bass trombones, not back to back but two at a time. Entirely different as well.

If you want to buy a now horn, try as many as much as you can.

Thank you for your answer!

Oh all right! I guess I didn’t make my point clear enough it should’ve been like te charasteristics that are generally known of those instruments.

I’m not looking to buy one right now

[natanaiel]

I’ve always considered playability to be an individual thing. A very playable instrument might be difficult for another. I used to have a Holton 183 that was the most playable trombone I’d ever played, even more so than my 169. I couldn’t say why, just that it was.-

All right! So don’t you think there are different charasteristics that come with each one (generally speaking)?

Thanks!

[natanaiel]

I’ve played a couple horns at shows, events, and festivals and like said previously, even if a horn is the same model, it can play way different. I personally found a really nice Bach 42 for myself, and I love it. I’ve also played awful ones, with just an awful, stuffy feel. I can say the same about the Alessi model as well; I’ve played some great ones, but quite a few bad ones as well.

Try the horn out before you buy it for the best mileage for you. Each will ALWAYS very in something (sound, feel, exc).

Thanks! So for you there wasn’t like a particular sound that came back with the 42´s or Alessi’s you tried? They were that different?

[natanaiel]

The Edwards horns give you the HB, which is basically like having the most adaptable instrument in the world.

If I could do it over, I'd get the Edwards Oft model. But I love my 396A.

I understand, is the difference that big with a Shires for example?

Oh interesting! Why is that?

[BGuttman]

There are differences between brands, and even between different examples. But these differences are subtle. If you don't sound good on a student trombone you won't sound good on a professional trombone. The main differences between brands is how they enable you to make a particular sound.

Harrison's praise of the Edwards instruments with the Harmonic Bridge relates to the ability to fine tune the instrument's response using different pillars (look like screws). The Harmonic Bridge won't add a major third to your range or enable a smooth legato. You have to achieve that, and you can do it on an Edwards T-350 or a King 606. Same techniques involved.

[harrisonreed]

The Edwards horns give you the HB, which is basically like having the most adaptable instrument in the world.

If I could do it over, I'd get the Edwards Oft model. But I love my 396A.

I understand, is the difference that big with a Shires for example?

Oh interesting! Why is that?

I had already been playing the 396A for years when I tried the Oft model -- It blew me away in terms of sound and response. I wasn't in the market for a tenor so I had to hand it back, but I was kind of sad I hadn't gone with that horn when I initially shopped Edwards. I'm still very happy with my 396A, though. I like it even more today than when I bought it in 2016.

[tkelley216]

All of the horns mentioned are good. At this point it's like comparing car makes: they will all get you to your destination. There's also a lot of branding out there and at the end of the day it's your job to make whatever equipment you have work.

That said, I have noticed some trends across each brand as I've tried equipment throughout the years. Everyone is going to have their opinion, but a couple personal observations based on the brands you mentioned:

Edwards: great, clear sound with a lot of color. Very good build quality, lots of options, but can sometimes feel "stiff" to play and don't always project as much as they seem. Each setup usually yields a great, but specific, sound and response. I find there is one way to play each Edwards and if played "right," then they sound amazing but they don't always respond well if you have a different sound concept in mind.

Shires: similar to Edwards, a little easier and flexible to play, less color, more core and projection. They tend to be more "wonky", with out of tune partials or "dead" spots on the horn and relatively inconsistent build quality compared to Edwards throughout the years. Some very good setups and many bad ones. The best and worst bass trombones I've ever tried were both shires...

Bach: when you find a good one, keep it!!! Each one has its own character and quirks, and there are plenty of dogs out there but there are some real gems too that I would take over any custom modern instruments (and yes, the gems have quirks too). Generally, they tend to play a little large and "blocky", but with a big centered sound can be pushed and project. You could go through 100 bell and slide combinations to find your holy grail, and many of the people who play them professionally have.

Courtois: have been making replicas of Bachs and conns for years, but they don't quite feel or sound exactly like the original. They are made well and more consistently than bachs or conns, and without some of their quirks, but I never found anything "special" about them. Good Bachs and conns were not always easy to find in Europe despite demand, so I think Courtois was trying to fill in. Good horns and I really want to like them, but I always end up preferring a conn, Bach, or Edwards/shires.

If I were in the market for a new horn (which I'm not), I would try to find a good, older, Bach 42 or conn 88h and have a trusted tech work on it a bit. If I couldn't find one I'd probably get a getzen 4047 or Edwards T-396.

[harrisonreed]

Oh the Getzen pro horns with the red unsoldered bell and no oversleeves are fantastic, though not on your list. I'd grab a Getzen before going with Conn-Selmer. Try one ifyou can!

https://www.getzen.com/trombones/eterna-series/1047fr/

[Gameboy64]

I’ve played a couple horns at shows, events, and festivals and like said previously, even if a horn is the same model, it can play way different. I personally found a really nice Bach 42 for myself, and I love it. I’ve also played awful ones, with just an awful, stuffy feel. I can say the same about the Alessi model as well; I’ve played some great ones, but quite a few bad ones as well.

Try the horn out before you buy it for the best mileage for you. Each will ALWAYS very in something (sound, feel, exc).

Thanks! So for you there wasn’t like a particular sound that came back with the 42´s or Alessi’s you tried? They were that different?

In terms of the 42’s, they all achieved something close to the “Bach sound”, but where they mainly end up falling short was how they felt: the responsiveness and such.

[rudytbone]

Oh the Getzen pro horns with the red unsoldered bell and no oversleeves are fantastic, though not on your list. I'd grab a Getzen before going with Conn-Selmer. Try one ifyou can!

https://www.getzen.com/trombones/eterna-series/1047fr/

I had the opportunity to demo a 1047FN this weekend and was impressed. The trigger felt "stuffy" - more back pressure than what I'm used to, but it played quite nicely. The back pressure may have helped with attack on those notes. If I was in the market for another .547 w/ trigger, this would be a serious contender.

[OneTon]

I have a Bach LT42AG and played it for 20 or more years. The question is interesting and the responses are interesting. It runs into the 5 blind men trying to describe an elephant problem. My first professional horn was an 88H because that was what my teacher who was 1st chair in the KC Philharmonic played. I got great results with it and even bonded with it. I went with a Bach 42B after that. I had gotten down to no horns, was headed overseas and blundered into acquiring a Bach LT42G. Some people accuse people who play straight horns of playing them because they don’t want to play 2nd or 3rd. We play them because we love them. And I can adequately cover most 2nd parts and many 3rd parts with it.

The other thing that happens is a person gets a different horn of similar bore size and finds that 6 months later, assuming the same mouthpiece, the player sounds the same as he did before to the folks out in front of the player. My university professor would talk about whether a given horn or model would “hold you back,” or not. Proficient players tend to sound good on any professional horn and will probably make a lot of Yamaha 354 student trombones sound good as well.

I like nickel slides. Why? Who knows? The gold brass bell on the LT42AG gets me back towards an 88H. Ultimately I have to go with what Clark Terry used to say: “It ain’t the horn.” Good luck on your journey. I hope you have as much fun as I have had.

[sf105]

I like @blast's explanation. Everyone has their own sound and the trick is to find the horn that matches it best.