TromboneChat

I’m going to be purchasing a marching euphonium in the near future and I’ve been wondering what mouthpiece to get as I primarily play an f attachment large bore tenor. I’ve heard that the Schilke 51D is a pretty good mouthpiece for euph but AWFUL for trombone. Are there any other better euph mouthpieces that can be used for a large tenor or should I just stick with the Schilke 51D?

What do you play on trombone now?

Right now I’m using this unnamed large shank mouthpiece that came with the trombone I use from my school. I dont really know the exact measurements of it but it does have a pretty deep cup.

Euphonium and trombone are different instruments and using identical mouthpieces for both will entail some compromises. A better route might be to use two mouthpieces with similar rims but different cups/backbores. You might eg use the 51D for euph and a 51 (or 51B, or 51C4) for trombone.

I know that I'm definitely different for this, but I love euphonium style mouthpieces on trombone - I started on a Shillke 51D and it worked really well for me, and I've had my best success with pieces made for euphonium on tenor ever since. From anecdotal evidence though this is pretty rare, and a lot of people don't like deep mouthpieces on tenor.

Hard to make a recommendation when we don't know what you're currently using...

You're buying a marching euph to prepare to audition for a DCI corps, right? If you know know which corps you're going for, you might want to check to see if they specify a standard mouthpiece.

Doug Elliott's EUPH series might be a good choice.

A lot of people use some of the Wick "trombone" mouthpieces (Wick 3AL, 4AL, 5AL, etc.) on euph. I use a DE euph J cup mouthpiece with a fairly large (106) rim and (J6) shank.

A "marching euphonium" is not really a euphonium so I really wouldn't worry too much about trying to have a great euphonium mouthpiece.
First you need to know what shank size you need.
If it's large shank, just use your trombone mouthpiece until somebody has an opinion.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:33 pm A "marching euphonium" is not really a euphonium so I really wouldn't worry too much about trying to have a great euphonium mouthpiece.
First you need to know what shank size you need.
If it's large shank, just use your trombone mouthpiece until somebody has an opinion.

Modern marching euphs are very much euphs, huge horns with .571 bores and 12 inch bells.

I hate the 51D in the euphonium.
I prefer the 2-3G ish sizes.
Wick 4AL/ SM4 are common for euphonium.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:52 pm

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:33 pm A "marching euphonium" is not really a euphonium so I really wouldn't worry too much about trying to have a great euphonium mouthpiece.
First you need to know what shank size you need.
If it's large shank, just use your trombone mouthpiece until somebody has an opinion.

Modern marching euphs are very much euphs, huge horns with .571 bores and 12 inch bells.

Still a very different taper, and generally aiming for a different sound concept. Exactly where to categorize them is a whole other discussion, but I suspect Doug's right that the considerations/advice for choosing a marching euph mouthpiece are different from someone trying to find the right mouthpiece for euphonium playing in a wind ensemble.

I've tried a range of euph mouthpieces on trombone and trombone mouthpieces on euph, and I didn't like any of the cross combinations. Do they "work"? Yes, you can play just about anything. Do they work "well"? I don't think so. You don't get the right sound on either side of a mismatch. Mouthpieces aren't that expensive. You can get a good used piece for a decent price. You're better off with separate mouthpieces for each horn. I would, however recommend getting the same or similar rims. If you use a single mouthpiece, you have to shuttle it back and forth between horns, and you're much more liable to forget it one time.

The closest match would be bass bone and euph, but even that cross match doesn't work very well.

The mouthpiece quest thing can get very expensive. You always think you're going to wind up with something perfect, but that never happens. The secret to getting a perfect mouthpiece is to practice it into submission. So it always happens over time, never immediately.

What wound up working for me was DE mouthpieces. You can get just about anything, and match rims. DE on trombone and either DE or DW on euph. On a marching instrument, I'd get something with a plastic rim for temperature/traction and a small bit of cushion. You can get DE stuff with lexan rims.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:38 am The closest match would be bass bone and euph, but even that cross match doesn't work very well.

Some time ago I experimented with a number of bass trombone mouthpieces on my compensating euph (Schilke, Wick, Stork, Bach, etc.). You can play the notes. You can play them at the correct pitch. But otherwise, not so good. I have heard of one person who does habitually use a bass trombone mouthpiece successfully on his euph.

hyperbolica wrote: What wound up working for me was DE mouthpieces. ... You can get DE stuff with lexan rims.

Same here. And I love the Lexan rims.

I have an old Bach 12SC that I wouldn’t trade for anything else for my tenor trombone. Pedals to above high Bb easily and with the sound I want. Said mouthpiece was originally my Dad’s from his Army baritone days. I used it throughout school in baritones, but when Mom, Wife, and kids all went together and bought me a euphonium for Birthday/Christmas/Fathers day back in the 90s the 12SC was not the answer. Lower Bb in the staff up to high Bb ok, but lows not so much. Horn came with an Olds 3, lows semi ok, forget highs. Used a Bach 12C I had and was ok but not outstanding. Tried Bach 6.5AL and that was the euph keeper for me. My experience is that tenor ‘bone and baritone easily interchange, but not tenor and euph.

BrassSection wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 5:15 pm My experience is that tenor ‘bone and baritone easily interchange, but not tenor and euph.

Yeah. The euph really is a small tuba -- predominantly conical bore and a larger bore. It makes a difference.

For added interest, take a look at Donald Stauffer's book "A Treatise on the Tuba." Difficult to get now, but a real classic.

On my two euphs - Wessex Dolce and Yamaha Custom - I prefer a small bass bone mouthpiece over a desugnated euph mouthpiece. Gives me better flexibility, better high register (!!!) and good all-round sound. I use a Yamaha 58 or 59, depending on situation. But them I am used to play bass bone on 1 1/4 sizes up to Yeo size.

Others do prefer designated euph mouthpieces - I tried - Schilke 51D, Schilke 52 * Symphony, Wick SM4 ... have them i my drawer, but just go back to Yammy 58 or 59 after a couple of hours again.

Maybe I am biased as I mostly play Bass bone and Eb tuba ???

Give it a try- these are dead cheap to buy ..

marccromme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:11 pm Maybe I am biased as I mostly play Bass bone and Eb tuba ???

Which is what I mostly play -- except now I'm playing mostly euph because that's what the band I'm in needs (having already got the trombone parts covered). I definitely prefer my DE euph piece for the sound I want to get out of the euph. But I can see how you might like a "small" bass bone piece. I used to have a Wick 2NAL that I really liked in terms of how it played -- except that I felt it produced too "bright" a sound for me on the bass trombone and the euph. I think that if you're basically a trombone player, you may tend toward a brighter sound, but if you're basically a tuba or euph player you might prefer a "darker" sound -- but on the other hand, euph players at all levels seem to all over the map in terms of the desired brightness or darkness of the sound.

After the musical part of our church service this morning, keyboard player/song leader commented to me “I really enjoyed the brass parts you played on that last song, were you on your trumpet?” Replied no, my euphonium. He replied whatever it was it really sounded good! Not sure I should take that comment very highly, if the euph and trumpet don’t sound any different to him! I was playing trumpet on first song, then switched to trombone on the second, then to the euph. Grandson did comment trumpet really sounded good on first song, I’ll take that since he is a trumpet player.

The Schilke 51, not 51D, will work well on a euphonium or baritone, or a medium or large bore trombone. Without sacrificing anything you might reasonably need on either. Believe me. Try it.

I struggle with rim changes. Maybe you will, too. Throw away the no-name mouthpiece. Buy a 51D for the euph and a 51c4 (or 51) for the trombone.

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 8:45 pm I struggle with rim changes. Maybe you will, too. Throw away the no-name mouthpiece. Buy a 51D for the euph and a 51c4 (or 51) for the trombone.

For whatever reason, the 51D's rim diameter is slightly smaller than that of the 51/51C4/51B (25.55 vs. 25.63 millimeters).

Yes, I had forgotten. I guess that's why I went with Doug Elliott.

Yep, the Schilke nomenclature is all over the place - I once got a 51 thinking it would just be a shallower variant of the 51D. They're not even close.

There are great euphonium players out there using mouthpieces all over the place. I got decent results for a long time on a stock Bach 4G on euphonium for awhile, and Denis WIck designed the 4AL (one of the ubiquitous standards for euphonium) as his personal trombone mouthpiece. These were the only mouthpieces I ever used regularly on both tenor trombone and euphonium at the same time (the Wick was a Heritage blank).

Most players that I've worked with, outside of the rare occasion doubler, use a different setup on both horns and you just have to practice each. This works best, especially once you settle into what works for your face and sound concept.

Personally, I use Doug Elliott gear on small and large tenor bones (XT, C+ and G cups) and euphonium (EUPH, J cup). I used a BB1 on euphonium for the longest time and probably still would if I was playing euphonium on the regular. The BB1 meets my needs and just sounds right in my head, but the Elliott is so efficient and way more comfortable.

For marching purposes, I wouldn't spend money on anything until you have a very specific reason to (you're going to march in a drum corps that has specific guidance on what to use, or it's under the guidance of a teacher that knows you well).

The Romero line in my stuff works well for both. I've actually had quite a few euph players prefer it to my euph specific mouthpieces.

I been using the Doug Elliott XT 102 H*8 cup on both large bore tenor trombone and my Sovereign 967 euphonium.When playing lead trombone I used the same rim on a Doug Elliott XT 102 D3 cup.ive tried many other mouthpieces but always came back to the DE's.Recently I've been trying the newly designed Denis Wick Steven Mead Ultra 4XR which now has a very comfortable round rim and shallower cup ,which I've tried on Euphonium and it's superb,I've also been using it on a Conn 88H playing lead in a big band(just to test it out) and also on principal trombone in a brass band,it's very early days as I've only had it for a week but so far I am really loving it , basically for me it's like a souped up Vincent Bach 4G which I used for 15 years in the Grenadier Guards Band ,the definition and sound is so far superb,I'm thinking the new rounded rims for comfort are getting to be very popular these days and alot of mouthpiece brands are now preferring them to the flatter sharp edged style mouthpieces of old , mainly because for me they definitely help with stamina? As we all know mouthpieces preferences are all very subjective?

Bumping this thread... I am a trumpet turned low brass guy and I can play most mouthpieces but like 5g on both trombone and euphonium.

My kid, however, really likes the Schilke 51d on euphonium. The only exact solution I saw recommended here was "a 51c4 (or 51) " but then people agreed that Schilke's 51 rim varies with models. Is there a mouthpiece where (1) the rim is close in size and shape to a 51d, (2) and it's not crazy expensive (so ideally Yamaha/Bach/Schilke/Faxx)? Grateful for any tips.... I'm trying to find them something close on trombone that won't lead to a full mouthpiece safari.

What size trombone? What size euphonium?

Compensating euphonium and large bore trombone. Just looking for a large bore trombone mouthpiece that roughly matches the 51D.

I understand sometimes you don't have a choice. On trumpet, people often try to keep the rim the same across Bb, C, and flugelhorn, but need to go smaller on piccolo. On trumpet, we also have the mouthpiece comparator, which lets you compare rim and cup pretty carefully among similar mouthpieces.

We've had a couple of people post mouthpiece profile comparisons, although I can't point to particular posts. You might want to look in this Board for posts by Harrison Reed, who has done a lot of comparisons.

If a 5G size mouthpiece feels a bit too large, you may want to try a 6½AL. I think Denis Wick makes a 5½AL as well, if he can tolerate the Wick flat rim. If the Wick A cup feels too large, there are AB and B cups that may feel better. FWIW I used a Wick 4BL on trombone since 4AL felt like an air hog.

I guess I would start by trying the 51D in the trombone as well. It works for some people.
I suspect the need for different mouthpieces is overblown a bit. Sure, if you're playing solo rep and chamber music, the tone is vital. But if you're playing an inner part in high school band (I don't know your son's age), you can get away with a lot. Maybe the best approach would be to use the 51D in both. Then after several months (or years?), when he's built a reference point, start the safari.

Anybody got a good mouthpiece recommendation for a Euph mouthpiece? I play a Mercer and Barker MB4G-JP “Dragon” on tenor trombone if that helps.

pipperz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:59 pm I’m going to be purchasing a marching euphonium in the near future and I’ve been wondering what mouthpiece to get as I primarily play an f attachment large bore tenor. I’ve heard that the Schilke 51D is a pretty good mouthpiece for euph but AWFUL for trombone. Are there any other better euph mouthpieces that can be used for a large tenor or should I just stick with the Schilke 51D?

Just wanna know why do you think 51D is awful on trombone (just asking, no offense)?

boneAngo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 12:37 am

pipperz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:59 pm I’m going to be purchasing a marching euphonium in the near future and I’ve been wondering what mouthpiece to get as I primarily play an f attachment large bore tenor. I’ve heard that the Schilke 51D is a pretty good mouthpiece for euph but AWFUL for trombone. Are there any other better euph mouthpieces that can be used for a large tenor or should I just stick with the Schilke 51D?

Just wanna know why do you think 51D is awful on trombone (just asking, no offense)?

Many considered the 51D to be too deep for trombone.

I currently use a Wick 4AL on a King 1130 m euph. It's relatively cheap/affordable, comfortable and sturdy. If you're not picky about mouthpieces, then it'll surely work as a piece for both horns.

I have a Wick SM3 for sale if you're interested.

boneAngo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 12:37 amJust wanna know why do you think 51D is awful on trombone (just asking, no offense)?

A whole thread on the subject:
viewtopic.php?t=8231