TromboneChat

I've got two sons. One in middle school and one about to graduate high school. The band director over middle school is aware of how much my oldest son is into trombone, and knows about his ever growing trombone collection.

The middle school band director is helping her father downsize stuff from a storage unit or cabin - among the things he had were a really fancy conductors baton from a time when he was a guest conductor, and a trombone. She asked my younger son if my older son would want it. (the answer, of course, is always yes... If it's something that he can't use he can easily find it another home)

Now the question you might have is: what is this mystery trombone? Is it an ancient student model with a slide glued shut? An old bone from an era that can't be tuned anymore? A custom made horn fashioned out of pure gold by magical dwarves?

We won't know until Monday after Thanksgiving when he goes back to school. I'm assuming it's probably a decent student model straight horn. Here are the clues:

- it's not a brand my younger son recognized.
- it's in a Conn case, but it's not a Conn
- the teacher told him it's more of a "jazz horn" (so I'm guessing it's a straight horn??)
- included with it in the case are three mouthpieces: a Bach, a stork, and a "Yamaha from Japan" (I didn't know they stamped Japan on mouthpieces)
- the name of the brand was longer than a few letters long, maybe as many as 8
- it was not a Reynolds (he knows about that one)
- it might have started with an R
- he thought it looked like it was in good shape but didn't have any answer about the color of the lacquer or how worn off it might be

The youngest son has seen my older sons trombones and should be aware of the different brands; King, Reynolds, Bach, Yamaha. He plays sax and trumpet so would be keyed into seeing Selmer, Bundy, or Conn anywhere on the instrument.

His teacher probably doesn't know the trombone market super well. She is in middle school / elementary school so her main focus for many years is on beginner instruments. Her primary instrument is French horn. Her family is musical too - she's got a brother who has played in broadway pits.

(If it ends up being something valuable we'll make sure she's compensated... I'm sort of guessing it's going to be an intermediate level horn or something)

So because this is now a total mystery to me, and it's sort of fun to try to guess what it is, I'll leave the open here for everyone there to guess what the mystery horn might be.

I won't have any updates until after school the Monday after Thanksgiving It's possible my son will forget on Monday to ask about it so I might not know anything until Tuesday even... I think I've already bugged my younger son with enough questions that he probably doesn't have any other info about it, but I can try to ask him some more clarifying questions. (He didn't say if he saw anything in the counterweight, so I'm assuming that the counterweight isn't distinctive like the Reynolds R, etc)

No prize for guessing other than the satisfaction of being the modern Sherlock of trombones.

You can post two guesses: A realistic guess, and your "it'd be pretty awesome if it was ..." guess and the aspirational guess will not count against your Sherlock status.

Besson 2-20 or a Martin.

If the R is correct and it's not Reynolds, I'd wonder about Roth? Of course, it's a very short name, so probably not....

Rudy Muck is my guess.

Some questions to ask your middle schooler...

Does he remember if the bell had fancy engraving on it? Or was it plain with just the name and maybe a few ornaments?

Was it all one color? Or multiple colors? Yellow, silver, reddish?

One possibility is that the "R" name isn't actually the manufacturer, but the model. On an Olds Recording's engraving, the model name is significantly more prominent than the manufacturer.

He says... "It was like technically two colors, where all the brass is one color but where is engraved is a different color?"

He now is wondering if it is a Reynolds... Neither he nor his teacher could read what the engraving read. He says it was something in cursive with flowers around it on the end..

He also says the bell was two colors, but not like a contempora with the rim around it and I showed him a Reynolds Emperor and he said it wasn't like that (silver at the end) but did have two tones in a place that was in a similar location to where the emperor changes the color.

The mystery to me is why you'd have three mouthpieces in a case with a student horn, so I'm thinking it's at least a well playing horn that someone actually used.

He wonders if the engraving was someone's name? (Though I've not heard of anyone making a totally plain bell and then someone doing a completely custom engraving on it...)

So it's now more of a mystery to me.

At the very least he'll get a few more mouthpieces. He has a small library of them that he lends to his friends in his band for some people who are doubling on trombone in the jazz band etc and aren't super invested in it like someone might be if it was their primary instrument.

I showed him an olds recording and he says that wasnt it. It was really small print, with letters about a half inch big.

The writing is flat if you had it on a stand (which rules out the Reynolds I've seen - those run along the bell)

... Maybe It's going to end up being a 1 of 1 custom thing made by some unknown maker.

Maybe a foreign language trombone?

.... I'm going to laugh if he gets it home and it says "Yamaha Advantage" (though I'm SURE both he and his teacher would be able to read that)

ryebrye wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:48 pm The mystery to me is why you'd have three mouthpieces in a case with a student horn, so I'm thinking it's at least a well playing horn that someone actually used.

Maybe. Or a good place to store mouthpieces you don't use is in the case you don't use anymore.

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:52 pm

ryebrye wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:48 pm The mystery to me is why you'd have three mouthpieces in a case with a student horn, so I'm thinking it's at least a well playing horn that someone actually used.

Maybe. Or a good place to store mouthpieces you don't use is in the case you don't use anymore.

Excellent point. The mouthpieces might be the part with value here and the trombone is just there for ballast.

I'm going to guess a Buescher Aristocrat.

Perhaps the "R" was the model? Try Courtois?

It MIGHT have been a Conn.... I came across a 1930s Conn 40h on Facebook marketplace and it has engraving that matches his description:
I showed him this one and asked him if this matches what he saw and he said it looked really similar to it.

Being in a Conn case would make more sense too if it's actually a C G Conn engraved Conn...

Still not sure, we'll find out Monday after school, and I'll update once I know

• Martin ?
• Olds (Studio) ?
• Conn (24H, 30H, 32H, 40H) ?

Olds Recording

A two-tone bell that's not silver at the end might be an Olds Special.

The results are in! It's an Olds Recording from 1955 (based on the serial number)

The mouthpieces are a Bach Corp 6 1/2 AL, a Stork custom that's hand engraved with "euphonium", and a Yamaha 48

The dual color on the bell is from red spots, not the way it was made
Getzen counter weight

Definitely needs a cleaning on the slide. The slide has some stocking wear on one side, but not terrible.

It sounds good just blowing through it, seems like it will be a keeper! (Or at the very least someone else in his jazz band will get an upgrade from their existing horn for a while)

JohnL wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:06 pmOne possibility is that the "R" name isn't actually the manufacturer, but the model. On an Olds Recording's engraving, the model name is significantly more prominent than the manufacturer.

There's no prize, is there? Didn't think so.

Interesting counterweight.

I guess your middle-schooler would not be a very good witness to testify in court.
["I showed him an Olds Recording and he says that wasn't it. It was really small print, with letters about a half inch big."]

Congratulations to CharlieB and JohnL, who guessed correctly.

The Olds Recording can be a very good trombone, with a nice full sound. I strongly recommend getting the [duo-octagonal] slide serviced. Most that are that old are not in such good shape.

This trombone will play better with an Olds shank mouthpiece - either an original Olds 1 or, better yet, a Doug Elliott set with an ST D Cup, the appropriate Rim, and an Olds Shank.

The counterweight is a great idea to balance the trombone. I used exactly the same solution until John Sandhagen provided me a customized weight drilled out to fit the 0.50" diameter crossbrace.

Good luck to whomever plays and enjoys this classic instrument!

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:21 pm I guess your middle-schooler would not be a very good witness to testify in court.
["I showed him an Olds Recording and he says that wasn't it. It was really small print, with letters about a half inch big."]

Maybe they swapped the trombones after he looked at it the first time!

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:21 pm Congratulations to CharlieB and JohnL, who guessed correctly.

Yeah, I thought they were wrong because my son seemed to be so sure about it being written in cursive. He was dead-on with the mouthpieces in the case though, so things he's familar with are easy for him to identify.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:21 pm The Olds Recording can be a very good trombone, with a nice full sound. I strongly recommend getting the [duo-octagonal] slide serviced. Most that are that old are not in such good shape.

Yeah, we're going to give it a thorough cleaning at least. At first it seemed like a normal round slide to me, but once you put slide lube on it or a little water, the light catches the angles of it and it's clear it's not round. Kind of cool.

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:21 pm This trombone will play better with an Olds shank mouthpiece - either an original Olds 1 or, better yet, a Doug Elliott set with an ST D Cup, the appropriate Rim, and an Olds Shank.

Good to know - it does have a good sound to it. My oldest son tried it for a while, he likes it but at the moment prefers his 2B to it - he says his 2B (silversonic) is a little more forgiving and easy to play - though maybe it just needs to be used with the right song...

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:21 pm The counterweight is a great idea to balance the trombone. I used exactly the same solution until John Sandhagen provided me a customized weight drilled out to fit the 0.50" diameter crossbrace.

Good luck to whomever plays and enjoys this classic instrument!

Yeah, without that counterweight it's very front heavy.

The serial number dates it to 1955 - and the last three of the serial number match the three numbers on the slide (which I assume is intentional)

I started when I was 8, on a Recording. I remember resting the bell on my knee because it was so front heavy. It was about the same vintage... Slide tubes the same color as the bell. Later they went to nickel silver outers.

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:14 pm …
Interesting counterweight.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE these old Getzen counterweights. Some of them screw off so you can adjust the mass, you can clamp them on the side to adjust L-R balance and they clamp on to most any brace size.

I have two, solidly recommended.

Cheers,
Andy

elmsandr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:33 pm I LOVE LOVE LOVE these old Getzen counterweights. Some of them screw off so you can adjust the mass, you can clamp them on the side to adjust L-R balance and they clamp on to most any brace size.
Cheers,
Andy

This is exactly what I used, until John Sandhagen bailed me out with a "hockey puck" weight drilled out to fit over the fat Recording crossbrace. With the stock screw, the Getzen weight barely had enough reach to clamp onto that brace. Otherwise it was great. Keeping it for now as a spare.

elmsandr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:33 pm

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:14 pm …
Interesting counterweight.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE these old Getzen counterweights. Some of them screw off so you can adjust the mass, you can clamp them on the side to adjust L-R balance and they clamp on to most any brace size.

I have two, solidly recommended.

Cheers,
Andy

Yep this one is really easy to unscrew and screw back in place.

Does the body of the counterweight itself unscrew to adjust the weight inside of it, or do you unscrew and remove one part of it? It seems like it has seems where it might be threaded but it doesn't freely unscrew and I didn't want to take any tools to it before I knew it it was actually threaded in there

ryebrye wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:33 am

elmsandr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:33 pm
I LOVE LOVE LOVE these old Getzen counterweights. Some of them screw off so you can adjust the mass, you can clamp them on the side to adjust L-R balance and they clamp on to most any brace size.

I have two, solidly recommended.

Cheers,
Andy

Yep this one is really easy to unscrew and screw back in place.

Does the body of the counterweight itself unscrew to adjust the weight inside of it, or do you unscrew and remove one part of it? It seems like it has seems where it might be threaded but it doesn't freely unscrew and I didn't want to take any tools to it before I knew it it was actually threaded in there

One of mine unscrews, the other doesn’t. I am not sure if the second one is stuck or just decorative, and it has not been an issue, so I’ve not explored that. Maybe I will here this afternoon…

Cheers,
Andy