JC Penzel - Nachfolger

[Bart]

Dear trombone experts, quite some years ago on the old trombone forum, I started a thread regarding an old German trombone I have. When cleaning the attic, I just came across the instrument again and I was hoping that maybe new members here might have more insights in what it is or could be (and maybe even help date it).

It is a German style trombone, all brass, no nickel silver. Besides oak leaves and acorns, it is engraved with:
J.C. Penzel
Nachfolger
Leipzig

I am aware that there were a few companies that claimed to be successors to Penzel, but they usually (but not always?) used their own name as well. There is no 's after Penzel, indicating more clearly that it might have been Penzel's successor.

It seems to have soldered on stockings. There have been some alterations/repairs in the past, which makes me think that it was once beloved and played a lot. It has a water key, but it is clear that it was added later (no idea why the snakes on the slide are so damaged though). Some repairs are visible as well.

Attached are a few pictures, but do tell if you want to see more or different angles.

All information is much appreciated, thanks!

[LeTromboniste]

I would put my money on this being a very early 20th century Oskar Ullmann, who used only Penzel's name (and not his own) in the first decade or so of his company.

[slipmo]

I think Max is onto something, though I think maybe a bit earlier but possibly still from Ullmann or one of Penzel's other apprentices. I've seen a similar looking instrument from another Penzel student, Petzold with date stamp made in 1892, that looked very similar to yours but had Petzold engraved after Nachfolger. Yours is a beautiful instrument, congrats! I'm a bit jealous!!!

[HowardW]

I am aware that there were a few companies that claimed to be successors to Penzel, but they usually (but not always?) used their own name as well. There is no 's after Penzel, indicating more clearly that it might have been Penzel's successor.

According to various secondary sources, J.C. Penzel died in 1879, and his son and successor just a year later. Thus, it is usually considered that the Penzel workshop ceased to exist in 1880. However, there is evidence that it was continued under Penzel's name by Oskar Ullmann. However, to muddy the waters a bit, Ullmann registered his own workshop in 1906: J. C. Penzel's Nachfolger Oskar Ullmann, and before that the former Penzel apprentice Robert Schopper founded his own workshop in 1888 (or 1894), also billing himself as Penzel Nachfolger.

My guess is that your trombone was made by Ullmann in the period between 1880 and 1890.

Howard

[Bart]

Thank you all so much for your insights! I never considered Petzold and I have never seen an engraving with just 'Nachfolger'. Great to hear from you all.

Thanks too your contribution, Howard, I remembered I've been in touch with Dr. Weller in the past (over ten years ago) regarding this instrument. Fortunately I could find it again in my old mailbox. He had been in contact with Dr. Herbert Heyde who said the following:

Was die Firma "J. C. Penzel, Nachf. C. F. Sattler" betrifft, so kann ich nur aus der Erinnerung schreiben, da ich meine Unterlagen nicht hier habe. Demnach war die Firma sicher nicht 1880 erloschen, wie ich schrieb, sondern muss unter der Witwe oder Schwiegertochter fortgefuehrt worden sein bis Schopper diese 1889 uebernahm. Die Signatur, die Sie mitteilen, "J.C. Penzel/ Nachfolger/ Leipziger" scheint die Bemuehungen zu reflektieren, dass man versuchte, die Sattler-Penzel-Posaunen als Leipziger Posaunen zu vermarkten, um sich von den in Markneukirchen und anderswo produzierten Instrumente als "echt Leipziger" abzugrenzen.

Of course it is only a guess from him as well, but that would support your theory too.

I'm just a mediocre trombone player with no suitable mouthpiece. I'll try to find a professional player to assess its playing qualities. I'm very curious to hear it being played! (Slide is a bit heavy, but suprisingly very functional.)

[SamBTbrn]

I'm just a mediocre trombone player with no suitable mouthpiece. I'll try to find a professional player to assess its playing qualities. I'm very curious to hear it being played! (Slide is a bit heavy, but suprisingly very functional.)

Bart,
If you live close to the Hague then there are a couple of people here who could have a look at it for you.
Tim Dowling (Trombone van het Residentie Orkest) specialises in these Insturments. (Tim might also be able to sell you a 2nd hand german trombone mouthpiece that would work with this instrument)
I also live in the Hague and have two Ullmann Trombones to compare them against if you like.

Met vriendelijk groeten
Sam. N