Trombone shopping on a budget

[cb56]

Changed the title because it's not so much about the CarolBrass horn (although I might end up with it) than it is getting a horn in my budget.
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Been away from playing for 10 years. I'm 67 yo. used to play a 70s King 3b amoung other horns.
Looking to get a decent playable horn to jam with my 75 year old trumpet playing friend (mostly jazz)
I've got a LOW budget of around $600. I know it's slim pickins at with that budget, I also HAVE to be able to pay with credit card.
So far I've come across a used CarolBrass 508 bore, A used yamaha YSL354 500 bore and an old Reynolds model 70
500 bore. I also came across a Holton 65 for less than my budget but I'm afraid it's too small plus the guy wants cash.
I'm not a high note lead player. In big bands I'd usually play 2nd or 3rd chair and was the go to improve jazz solo guy. Also played a lot of dixieland jazz back in my day. Think Bob Havens and Teagarden just not as good.
Any reviews on the CarolBrass or other suggestions?
I don't have enough posts yet to search or I'd do that.
Thanks
cb56

[dcslideman]

I wouldn't discard the Holton 65 idea. There were several versions. The last version I think was from '57 to '65 and was done for and advertised with Buddy Morrow. I have one(1965). I can tell you it plays bigger than you could expect. It can have a lot of color and get really sassy if you want it too. Can also be warm with the gold brass bell. I don't know anything about the older ones or which one you have available. Play it if you can.

[DCIsky]

CarolBrass puts a lot of work and R&D into their trumpets. The trombone that I tried at their factory in 2019 was okay, but it wasn’t particularly a standout.

[Kingfan]

The Yam YSL354 is a student horn that punches above its weight. I've heard only good things about them and that they are a good jazz horn.

[Oslide]

The Yamaha YSL-354 would be quite alright for your purposes and you could probably get a decent one for half of your budget.

[Finetales]

The Yamaha YSL-354 would be great for you and well under budget, but if you feel like looking around more there are lots of options for you at that budget online.

Here's a Yamaha YSL-653 (an older professional model with the same specs as the YSL-354) for $500.
Here's a Yamaha YSL-353 (same as an older YSL-354, but with a red brass bell) for $245.
Here's a Yamaha YSL-354 for $235.
Here's a Getzen 351 (another student horn that punches well above its weight, like the Yamaha YSL-354) for $189.

All of these are Buy It Now from reputable sellers, and would be excellent for your purposes.

[cb56]

Fine tales, I saw those horns but was a bit concerned about buying from Japan.
Here in the states if I get scammed I can always track them down. Not so much in Japan

[AnthonyGTrombone]

I can second the Ysl-653 as being a really fine horn for the money.
The 354 isn't really different though, so if you don't care about looks or perceived value go for the 354.
I'd happily play either one on a gig if I didn't have my other tenors.

I can also point out that "soccer-1611" sells tons of stuff on ebay. And while I have never purchased from them personally, they've sold bunches of stuff with good reviews, and I see the name pop up a lot. Ebay also has pretty decent purchase protections. Additionally if you pay with a credit card through paypal as well, you've likely got a lot of avenues to be able to get your money back in the event of a bad purchase.

Yamaha stuff can be had really cheap from Japan as they're pretty abundant in their home country, so I wouldn't knock it right away.

Weirdly Soccer seems to also be selling a shires tenor that has no serial number and allegedly is one of the first ever made. It's even got a dark black patina.
There's tons of unique horns this guy sells.

[Finetales]

Fine tales, I saw those horns but was a bit concerned about buying from Japan.
Here in the states if I get scammed I can always track them down. Not so much in Japan

It's an understandable concern, but I have bought quite a few horns from Japanese eBay sellers and never had a problem. As long as you buy from a seller with lots of positive reviews (such as the ones I linked), you should be totally fine. And as the commenter above me mentioned, eBay/PayPal in particular has bulletproof buyer protection. I have firsthand experience dealing with a scammer through PayPal (not from buying an instrument, mind you) and PayPal customer support made absolutely sure I got my money back right away. Much easier and more effective than trying to "track down" a scammer that got you elsewhere.

[cb56]

Fine print in ad,
"Import duties, taxes, and charges are not included in the item price or shipping cost. These charges are the buyer's responsibility. Please check with your country's customs office to determine what these additional costs will be prior to bidding or buying.
Thank you for your understanding."

[BGuttman]

From the US Customs Service:

Mailing and Shipping Goods - Customs Duty Guidance

Unaccompanied purchases are goods you bought on a trip that are being mailed or shipped to you in the United States. In other words, you are not carrying the goods with you when you return. If your unaccompanied purchases are from an insular possession (IP) or a Caribbean Basin Initiative (CBI) country and are being imported within 30 days and sent directly from those locations to the United States, you may enter them as follows:

Up to $1,600 in goods will be duty-free under your personal exemption if the merchandise is from an IP.
Up to $800 in goods will be duty-free if it is from a CBI or Andean country.
Any additional amount, up to $1,000, in goods will be dutiable at a flat rate (3%).

I think you will be under these limits.

Note that you may owe sales tax. Ebay usually tacks this on.

[Finetales]

As far as I've read, import duties are for items worth $800 and above. I've never had to pay import duties on any instrument I bought internationally, including Japan. I bought a $500 horn from Japan late last year and there were no extra fees.

[Fujiifilm17]

Adding on to what Finetales already mentioned, I bought a yamaha 8440 from a similar eBay seller based in Japan. Since it was little over $800 after sales tax, I ended up paying about $40 in customs duties after it was delivered, which honestly I didn't really mind considering the overall price of the instrument.

[Briande]

Adding on to what Finetales already mentioned, I bought a yamaha 8440 from a similar eBay seller based in Japan. Since it was little over $800 after sales tax, I ended up paying about $40 in customs duties after it was delivered, which honestly I didn't really mind considering the overall price of the instrument.

How does that work? Do you get billed for customs duties by someone? Or do you just pay it proactively? Have to pay before they deliver it?

[Fujiifilm17]

In my case, I was billed by the shipping company (Fedex in this instance).

A few days after the instrument was delivered, I received a bill from Fedex detailing the customs duties. I then paid the bill online.

[cb56]

My mouthpiece came in the mail today. (Yamaha 48) Did the first buzzing I've done in about 10 years.
Could buzz an F arpeggio (in staff to above staff) but that's about it. After a couple of minutes I was fatigued at the corners.

Think I'll go trombone shopping tomorrow maybe. Looking for something between 500 and 525 bore. Hoping to find something between $500 and $600 that isn't junk.
Would prefer older pro horn that might be ugly and maybe need SLIGHT repair.
Want a darker jazz tone. Not a high note player. If brass exchange is open tommorow I'll go by there.

[hyperbolica]

I've got an Olds Recording for sale that I'd let go for $500 shipped. It's a 49x - 510 dual bore. Plays well without a lot of dents, good candidate for restoration.

[Trav1s]

I have a nice Conn 77H .500" intermediate horn that needs a new home. $300 + shipping There are pics in the for sale section. viewtopic.php?p=201950&hilit=77h#p201950

[Reedman1]

I have a Carol Brass 2209 .508 bore in perfect condition. It’s probably a little bright sounding, but a very decent trombone overall. It’s very well made, and you can certainly color the timbre. Since I now play a Butler JJ, I’m considering finding a new home for the Carol. PM me if you’re interested.

[bassclef]

I can also point out that "soccer-1611" sells tons of stuff on ebay. And while I have never purchased from them personally, they've sold bunches of stuff with good reviews, and I see the name pop up a lot. Ebay also has pretty decent purchase protections. Additionally if you pay with a credit card through paypal as well, you've likely got a lot of avenues to be able to get your money back in the event of a bad purchase.

Yamaha stuff can be had really cheap from Japan as they're pretty abundant in their home country, so I wouldn't knock it right away.

Weirdly Soccer seems to also be selling a shires tenor that has no serial number and allegedly is one of the first ever made. It's even got a dark black patina.
There's tons of unique horns this guy sells.

I had a bad experience with that seller a month or two ago.

I bought a YBL-813UG for $2500. A little more than a week goes by and I finally get Fed-Ex tracking info. Turns out the tracking info was for an envelope-sized package which was delivered to an address in Indiana and I'm in Ohio.

I reached out to the seller about this. He lied and said it was a Fed Ex problem with some elaborate story. It wasn't remotely true, a shipping label with my address as the destination was never even created. I confirmed this with Fed Ex. They did eventually refund my money without PayPal forcing his hand.

A couple days later, the seller reached out to me with "great news" that he acquired another 813UG but at a higher price. He relisted it with different photos for $3800. Listed it on I believe 5 other seller accounts with the same photos also. The horn and case had some very distinct marks/imperfections which were also visible on the newly photographed and listed horn. It was undoubtedly 100% the same instrument.

If you look at the negative feedback on that seller account, you can easily see that what I described above is somewhat of a common practice for him. You can see the same on the other seller accounts he uses as well.

He obviously delivers some of what he sells...but just don't get your hopes up until the horn arrives on your doorstep.

[cb56]

I think I saw your post bassclef.
Thanks for bringing that problem to attention

[cb56]

Thanks for all the help and offers everyone.
I went to Brass Exchange in St. LOUIS and picked out a nice 1929
Conn 78h in great shape. Doug gave me a great deal and is a great guy. Played a few exercises with me that will help me get my chops back in shape.
I played the Carol brass and a Conn 6h but the 78h was/is the right horn for me. Played a nice Bach 36 but it was beyond my budget.
I highly recommend Brass Exchange if you're looking to buy a horn.

[hyperbolica]

Thanks for all the help and offers everyone.
I went to Brass Exchange in St. LOUIS and picked out a nice 1952 Conn 78h in great shape. Doug gave me a great deal and is a great guy. Played a few exercises with me that will help me get my chops back in shape.
I played the Carol brass and a Conn 6h but the 78h was/is the right horn for me. Played a nice Bach 36 but it was beyond my budget.
I highly recommend Brass Exchange if you're looking to buy a horn.

That might have been my old 78h. 78h are (for me) on paper a great horn, but I just can't make peace with them. I've bought 3-4 of them, and always wind up selling them on down the line. I'm a big fan of light horns, and of 525 horns, and I absolutely love the 79h. The 78 just gets too bright too quickly for me. It's the one horn that actually plays smaller than you think it should.

I bought my current 8h from Doug, and several other bones I've owned. Nice guy, and easy to do business with if you can get hold of him.

[cb56]

Don't have the chops built up yet to fully evaluate the horn yet. So far I love it. I'll be playing mostly jazz and dance band music so a little brightness when needed will be a good thing. I certainly don't want it to sound like an 8H or even a 6H for that matter (both great horns). I wanted something in the middle. Sure blows easy which is a big plus for me.

[cb56]

Guess I read the serial number wrong This is in fact a 1929 vintage horn

[AnthonyGTrombone]

I can also point out that "soccer-1611" sells tons of stuff on ebay. And while I have never purchased from them personally, they've sold bunches of stuff with good reviews, and I see the name pop up a lot. Ebay also has pretty decent purchase protections. Additionally if you pay with a credit card through paypal as well, you've likely got a lot of avenues to be able to get your money back in the event of a bad purchase.

Yamaha stuff can be had really cheap from Japan as they're pretty abundant in their home country, so I wouldn't knock it right away.

Weirdly Soccer seems to also be selling a shires tenor that has no serial number and allegedly is one of the first ever made. It's even got a dark black patina.
There's tons of unique horns this guy sells.

I had a bad experience with that seller a month or two ago.

I bought a YBL-813UG for $2500. A little more than a week goes by and I finally get Fed-Ex tracking info. Turns out the tracking info was for an envelope-sized package which was delivered to an address in Indiana and I'm in Ohio.

I reached out to the seller about this. He lied and said it was a Fed Ex problem with some elaborate story. It wasn't remotely true, a shipping label with my address as the destination was never even created. I confirmed this with Fed Ex. They did eventually refund my money without PayPal forcing his hand.

A couple days later, the seller reached out to me with "great news" that he acquired another 813UG but at a higher price. He relisted it with different photos for $3800. Listed it on I believe 5 other seller accounts with the same photos also. The horn and case had some very distinct marks/imperfections which were also visible on the newly photographed and listed horn. It was undoubtedly 100% the same instrument.

If you look at the negative feedback on that seller account, you can easily see that what I described above is somewhat of a common practice for him. You can see the same on the other seller accounts he uses as well.

He obviously delivers some of what he sells...but just don't get your hopes up until the horn arrives on your doorstep.

Gutted to hear that!
I'll keep that in mind.

I'm glad you were able to recover your funds. I wonder what goes on that makes these kinds of sellers so inconsistent.
Nothing truly can replace buying something in person.

[ithinknot]

I wonder what goes on that makes these kinds of sellers so inconsistent.

They're individuals offering to buy from JDM sites - hence the multiple sellers offering the same goods - relisting on US marketplaces and acting as an informal forwarding service at a significant markup.

[kingtempo504]

Changed the title because it's not so much about the CarolBrass horn (although I might end up with it) than it is getting a horn in my budget.
*******************************************************************
Been away from playing for 10 years. I'm 67 yo. used to play a 70s King 3b amoung other horns.
Looking to get a decent playable horn to jam with my 75 year old trumpet playing friend (mostly jazz)
I've got a LOW budget of around $600. I know it's slim pickins at with that budget, I also HAVE to be able to pay with credit card.
So far I've come across a used CarolBrass 508 bore, A used yamaha YSL354 500 bore and an old Reynolds model 70
500 bore. I also came across a Holton 65 for less than my budget but I'm afraid it's too small plus the guy wants cash.
I'm not a high note lead player. In big bands I'd usually play 2nd or 3rd chair and was the go to improve jazz solo guy. Also played a lot of dixieland jazz back in my day. Think Bob Havens and Teagarden just not as good.
Any reviews on the CarolBrass or other suggestions?
I don't have enough posts yet to search or I'd do that.
Thanks
cb56

I have a king tempo with a 2b slide you might be interested in for 500.

[cb56]

Thanks for the offer. I bought a Conn 78h last week

[bassclef]

Gutted to hear that!
I'll keep that in mind.

I'm glad you were able to recover your funds. I wonder what goes on that makes these kinds of sellers so inconsistent.
Nothing truly can replace buying something in person.

Yeah thanks, it turned out okay though. I really wanted that 813UG, and I was pretty salty about this experience for a few weeks. But then, a very low-mileage 613H popped up which I was able to acquire. I just wrapped a run of a show which was the first job I did with the 613H. I love it, it's a great horn and is different from the one I use for big band stuff in all the right ways.

Oddly enough, it took much longer and was way more expensive to get the 613 shipped to me from Vancouver then a lot of stuff I've bought from Japan (a couple horns, a lot of JDM fishing tackle). Anything I have ever bought from mainland Japan has arrived at my door in exactly three days, almost without fail. I don't know how that's possible, but it is.

[Gianna99]

The Yamaha YSL-354 would be quite alright for your purposes and you could probably get a decent one for half of your budget.

For brass musicians, the Yamaha YSL-354 is a good option since it provides dependable performance and excellent sound quality. It is appropriate for both beginning and advanced players because to its reputation for strength and simplicity of use. Plus, it becomes an even more tempting alternative if you can get one for half the expense.GB Whatsapp