Identifying a German Trombone

[Finetales]

I just acquired this lovely Quartposaune today:


The trouble is, it has no markings anywhere. I realize that it's probably a long shot with the indefinitely large number of small German makers, but I might as well check here to see if anyone can recognize any features that would identify it as being the work of a certain maker.

Here are a few more pictures to help: DRIVE LINK

It does look as if the main tuning slide (with valve inset) is meant to be swapped out for a valveless main slide (as is the case on many quartposaunen), but I only have the valved one.

For those curious, it has that fabulous dark German sound you would expect. It's addicting to play, and I can already think of a few situations where I'll be able to use it and even make money on it! I need to replace the valve strap first though.

[MStarke]

Looks great!

What's the bell diameter? Looks relatively large on the pictures (which is typical for German trombones).
As the bell doesn't have a Kranz/garland - is it particularly thin?

I absolutely cannot give you a specific hint on a maker.
Just a few observations:
The snake decorations can be a good indication of the maker.
The valve looks a bit unusual. Most German trombones I have played or seen have either the string directly from the valve or a fully metal linkage. This mix of metal and string linkage seems a bit strange - but can of course be perfectly functioning! Maybe a modification of the original.
And is there some pipe added to the mouthpiece receiver? Could that be an adapter from medium to small shank? Modern leadpipes are rather uncommon with older German trombones.

In which situations do you plan to play it?
Although I own currently 3 nice German trombones, I don't really get to play them with others as even in Germany not many people play them and they do not mix very well with American trombones.

[LeTromboniste]

One of my German trombones is extremely similar if not almost identical, with the same shape of braces in the valve section, the same odd linkage attached to that flat thick brace, same plain cylindrical spring barrels, and mostly the same turnings (yours has a couple mine doesn't have near the mouthpiece receiver and slide tenon). But mine also had a couple of reinforcing corner braces on the bell brace and the wrap has very small differences, with the tuning slide not hanging quite that low, and the bends at the back touching (there's actually a touch of solder between the back bow and the top F-wrap bend, and another between both bends of the wrap). Also unmarked, so identifying is virtually impossible.

The snakes can be a good hint sometimes especially when their shape is very distinctive and known to be used by one or a few makers in particular. Here, it's one of the most common forms so I doubt it'll be of much help.

The one thing I would say is this is probably based on the famous "Modell Kuhn", which usually has this distinctive wrap and often an interchangeable tuning slide without valve.

[Finetales]

What's the bell diameter? Looks relatively large on the pictures (which is typical for German trombones).
As the bell doesn't have a Kranz/garland - is it particularly thin?

Bell is 9", and doesn't seem particularly thin.

And is there some pipe added to the mouthpiece receiver?

Yes, that's a small shank pipe that was added by the previous owner.

In which situations do you plan to play it?

Usually about once or twice a year, I play with an opera company that uses a reduced orchestra - the brass section is 2 horns, 1 trumpet, 1 trombone. In the arrangements they get, the trombone part is usually mostly taken from the 3rd trombone part, with a light sprinkling of 1st/2nd trombone or 3rd/4th horn. This is how the Magic Flute production I did last with them was...almost entirely the bass book, with the 2 horns playing the other two trombone parts at important moments. But it's hard work making my full-size bass trombone blend with an orchestra that small, while my normal large tenor is the wrong sound for the lowest part. I think this German trombone will be a perfect fit.

The one thing I would say is this is probably based on the famous "Modell Kuhn", which usually has this distinctive wrap and often an interchangeable tuning slide without valve.

That makes sense - I'm assuming not an actual Modell Kuhn though.

[JohnL]

Is that the one that's been lurking in John Sandhagen's shop for a while?

[Finetales]

Is that the one that's been lurking in John Sandhagen's shop for a while?

Yep!