No Altos?

[BassBoneWaluigi]

Just curious, why do manufactures such as Bach and Edwards no longer have Alto trombone models listed on their website?
Are these companies simply not interested in creating an alto at the moment, or are they going through the process of developing a new model?

Thanks in advance

[Burgerbob]

The market is saturated with boutique altos, which are the horns that the professionals use. Below that are the Yamahas and used Conns and the like, which the college students buy. Not much room for quirky old designs like the Bach 39, or slow sellers like I imagine the Edwards was (though both are good horns in their own right- nothing against either one).

For both makers, not much reason to keep a really low volume thing around when you can make money on the quantity products. Same reason Edwards has cut a few products from the line lately like the dependent basses.

[Matt K]

Really kicking myself for not getting an Edwards alto back in college when they were like $2400 new. I've played a couple and they are head and shoulders above anything else I've played for me. Holding out hope they eventually make a Getzen bousfield alto!!

[harrisonreed]

Between the Conn 36H, Rath, and Shires offerings, which are far more horn than 99.99% of people playing the alto will ever need, and the super great but specialized Thein (let's face it, there are probably 10 people on the planet getting everything that horn brings to the table out of it), there is very little chance of recouping the tooling and R&D costs that you'd need to compete in the market against what is already out there.

Put another way, it would take a lot of money and effort just to compete with the "meh" Yamaha altos. There are some boutique altos already in this boat.

Put a third way, Bach's alto was kind of legendary for being difficult and fussy to play.

[Kdanielsen]

Edwards spent years developing new Altos (a German one and an American one). They would bring prototypes to shows sometimes. They were really good. I lucked into a used Thein that I loved so I stopped paying attention to Edwards’ new altos. It’s on their radar, though.

[CalgaryTbone]

I have a very nice Edwards alto, and I'm very happy that I bought this particular one. I will say that I bought it at an ITF, and the combination that I chose was head and tails above everything else they had there, so I think that the Edwards altos varied a bit in quality from one to another.

When Edwards stopped production of their alto, they had a new model in mind. There were talks about an instrument that was more "German" style, with the long tuning slide that comes down the neckpipe almost all the way to where the slide attaches to the bell (like the new Sires Alessi alto). I guess other priorities took precedence - they probably weren't selling enough to justify the expense of all of the R&D.

I wish they had also followed up on the idea of having a detachable B flat attachment (maybe trill valve as well). I talked to Christan once about that, and it was definitely on his radar at the time. Having that as an option that you don't have to have permanently on the horn would be great.

I have noticed lately that the stock of all of the Edwards, Shires (except Q series), Greenhoe, etc. horns seem to be in short supply at the major dealers. I can remember stopping in at Dillons on trips to see family in the NYC area, and being able to try multiple versions of all of the boutique manufacturers, but very few of those types of stores seem to have more than an occasional single instrument like that, and often it's a used one that is on consignment.

Jim Scott

[harrisonreed]

Them losing Alessi, who would have been the biggest proponent of an Edwards alto since he has done quite a few solo recordings on one, probably made it a lot less pressing to redesign their alto.

FWIW, I think most alto makers need to go back to the drawing board -- they are building altos too long or putting the bell in the wrong place, or both. Even on the Shires, which is a VERY excellent alto that plays in tune no matter what you do to the TIS, it seems like they designed it so that the bell is exactly as far from the bumpers as Eb is from Db. That might sound awesome, but it's not. And the 36H, which is also one of the best alto designs of all time, only plays in tune (and allows a Db aligned with the bell) if you cut down the erroneously long bell tuning section. I haven't found a "perfect" alto out of the box.

[tbonesullivan]

How long was the Edwards Alto actually in production for? It's been quite some time since I remember seeing it on their website, or anywhere. Rarely see them on the used market, so who ever has them are keeping them, and I don't think there were that many of them ever made. I think it all comes down to what sells. There is not that much demand for alto trombones, and it may be that everyone who wanted to make a custom modular alto already got one. As others have said, there are also plenty of people who would rather go for a European / German style alto, as in many cases that is exactly the repertoire they are buying it for.

For every trombone maker the professional market is pretty much Jazz horns, Large Bore Tenors, and Bass trombones. Somehow the Bach 36 keeps surviving, probably due to it being known as the "smaller big horn". The Conn 36H has Christian Lindberg behind it, so I would wager that is why Conn Selmer keeps making it, and the Bach 39 is as many have said, "quirky". To avoid dividing their market, C-S probably just decided to back seat it for a while.

[MStarke]

There are certainly more than enough altos on the market!

"Boutique" and smaller makers such as Shires, M&W, Rath, all the German, Swiss and Austrian manufacturers (not only Lätzsch and Thein, there are at least >10, probably >20 different makers...).
Larger companies with maybe a little more moderate pricing such as Conn, Kühnl&Hoyer (who actually have 3 (!) models plus the ones with Bb attachment), Courtois or Yamaha. Bachs can also still be found. Miraphone although I have never seen one in real life.
The cheap Chinese stuff under various names (which from my knowledge are all the same 2 or 3 models, but with a little variation in quality control).
And of course the Pbone.

[timothy42b]

Carbon fiber, for us aging folk? Might be a market. And maybe it wouldn't be so nose heavy, especially if shaped like Harrison wants.

[chromebone]

Can’t speak for the Edwards alto, but the Bach 39, while known for a beautiful, clear sound, is also notoriously difficult to play in tune. Most players aren’t willing to make that trade when you can buy a 34/36 H that is much easier to play and still sounds really good. The alto market is pretty limited to begin with, and Conn-Selmer undoubtedly saw no reason to continue to sell the 39 if there was no demand and they make another horn that sells much better.
There’s still plenty of used 39s out there if you’re really jonesing for one.

[Finetales]

You can also still find new B&S Challenger 3049 altos for sale here and there, though the model is gone from their website.

Sadly, the B&S Erde alto never made it to production.