TromboneChat

I'm mostly a tenor player but got asked to play bass trombone in a community jazz band a couple years ago. At that time I acquired an older/beat up King Duo Gravis at a good price. A couple months ago I decided up "upgrade" my bass and bought a Getzen 1052 FD. When I test played it, I liked it. I figured there would be an adjustment period. But now a few months in I still just can't seem to get the low end notes (mostly below the staff) to "pop" or some may say "splat" like I can on the Duo Gravis. I've tried the different lead pipes, but is there one of the lead pipes that is MORE like the Duo Gravis that I should focus in on? Any suggestions? Or is it just going to take more practice and patients? (Or just sell the Getzen!)

Thanks.

1062 or 1052?

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:33 pm 1062 or 1052?

Independent 1052 with yellow brass bell.

Keep the duo gravis. It does what you want. The Getzen is not an upgrade.

blast wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:36 pm Keep the duo gravis. It does what you want. The Getzen is not an upgrade.

Thanks. I only said it was an "upgrade" because my Duo Gravis is really beat up! Maybe I just need to look for a Duo Gravis in better condition.

The 1052 is also a great instrument fwiw Just might not be your cup up of tea.

I recommend the 1 pipe or perhaps something in nickel for the sound you’re going for

It's very possible you're used to the feel and response of the dependent Duo Gravis versus the independent 1052. These are two very different feels. I'd second Matt K and keep at it with the 1 pipe.

The 1062 (dependent) may be more up your alley. It does have a dual bore slide.

On the flip side, it might be a better investment to have your King restored to a better condition than you found it. Wear be darned, it's possible the DG is an excellent specimen waiting for the right tech to bring it to its initial potential.

What mouthpiece are you using? Some combinations of horn/mouthpiece get along better than others.

Kevbach33 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:11 pm The 1062 (dependent) may be more up your alley. It does have a dual bore slide.

In terms of sound concept the 1062 is probably even further away from what OP is used to, and it's not a very friendly horn for a tenor player.

The Duo Gravis is really a unique horn. Are you using the same mouthpiece on the 1052FD as you did on the Duo Gravis? You might get a more edgy sound with a lighter weight mouthpiece.

I will say though, there really isn't anything that rips out low notes like a Duo Gravis, IMHO. The valve tubing is .563, the same as the rest of the bore, which really helps give it more edge in the low range.

spencercarran wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:38 pm What mouthpiece are you using? Some combinations of horn/mouthpiece get along better than others.

Kevbach33 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:11 pm The 1062 (dependent) may be more up your alley. It does have a dual bore slide.

In terms of sound concept the 1062 is probably even further away from what OP is used to, and it's not a very friendly horn for a tenor player.

Agreed... that's why I asked. I'd say the 1052 is just overall better than the 1062 as well.

spencercarran wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:38 pm What mouthpiece are you using? Some combinations of horn/mouthpiece get along better than others.

Kevbach33 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:11 pm The 1062 (dependent) may be more up your alley. It does have a dual bore slide.

In terms of sound concept the 1062 is probably even further away from what OP is used to, and it's not a very friendly horn for a tenor player.

I was originally using the King 29 that came with the Duo Gravis but eventually switched to a Wick 2NAL. So I think both smaller mouthpieces. The Getzen came with a Bach 1.5 and a Marcinkiewicz 1. I've been trying them all in the Getzen....

The previous owner was using the Marcinkiewicz and the #2 leadpipe combination, for what it's worth.

Thank you all for the responses so far. Very helpful.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:33 pm 1062 or 1052?

Ha! I just noticed my signature block said a 1062. I just double checked. It’s an independent 1052.

Those are two very different horns with a very different blow. That said, it may be worth taking the Getzen in to a tech just to make sure everything is mechanically sound and nothing is leaking.

Well, I think the Duo Gravis is avery nice horn, get it fixed!

The DG any day. get a decent tech to sort the DG out for you - it would be a good investment. Sounds like the issues may only be cosmetic anyway. Use the 1.5 mouthpiece but make sure the taper of the shank matches - if not get Doug Elliot to supply you with an equivilant. It will make DG sing and pop all at the same time, they are great instruments... Doug

Playing on a 1052FD with a Markey 47. Changed from a Holton 180 to get the independent valve setup. Band leader loves the way I can carve through with the pedals. Maybe try a Markey?

vetsurginc wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 7:50 am Playing on a 1052FD with a Markey 47. Changed from a Holton 180 to get the independent valve setup. Band leader loves the way I can carve through with the pedals. Maybe try a Markey?

Thanks. Do you mean a Markey 87? I can’t seem to find a 47 online?

Sorry. Yes Markey 87. Still not awake. MORE COFFEE PLEASE!

DougHulme wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:04 am The DG any day. get a decent tech to sort the DG out for you - it would be a good investment. Sounds like the issues may only be cosmetic anyway. Use the 1.5 mouthpiece but make sure the taper of the shank matches - if not get Doug Elliot to supply you with an equivilant. It will make DG sing and pop all at the same time, they are great instruments... Doug

Completely agree.

vetsurginc wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 7:50 am Playing on a 1052FD with a Markey 47. Changed from a Holton 180 to get the independent valve setup. Band leader loves the way I can carve through with the pedals. Maybe try a Markey?

With the proper approach carving out pedals is easy on a 180 and a Duo Gravis.

More agreement with the Duo Gravis. Either put some work toward making your current one better or find another one.

The Getzens seem to have a much more full "blossom" or even delay. The Duo Gravis that I've played both have an extreme immediacy to the sound. I weirdly like both horns like I mentioned but you might also just want to think about if you are having issues with articulation because of change in expectation. With the Duo Gravis, you may have to back off to get warmth on pedals. With the Getzen, you may have to be more pointed in your articulation. I tend to have problems being overagressive, so I seem to be gravitating to the Getzens at the moment actually myself.

The advice to make sure BOTH horns are in ship-shape are good to be honest. I would also suggest, in addition to what I mentioned earlier about the "1" pipe, recommend practicing things like arpeggios, in good time, in that register on both instruments, especially with a drone. Arpeggiating downward while keeping your corners firm is going to be key regardless of what instrument you play. I've known a lot of players, especially tenor converts or doublers, and I include myself in this category untiL I started studying with Doug... that don't maintain an adequate amount of firmness in the register and the net result is kind of how you are describing your lower register. Ideally, you would have a "single embrouchre" that you can use to play those registers but it's easier said than done and very easy to slip up without realizing it. If you can continue into the lower register without removing the mouthpiece whatsoever (even for a quick breath) you will notice a big difference after a few days --- assuming you have not been doing so.

The only real substitute for a Duo Gravis is another Duo Gravis.

If you really want/need an indy horn, your best bet would be a King 2107 (7B); it's still not a DG, but it's closer than pretty much anything else out there.

I would agree with the majority over here. The Duo Gravis is one of the best, if not the best, horn for jazz settings, maybe alongside with those vintage Conn 62Hs. Definitely worth to get it checked and repaired.

A good repairer will do wonders for a beat up horn, as long as the slide still works.

As others have said, the DG is a very distinctive horn that doesn't play like others, so switching to another horn is almost like a double. Of course, the only real upgrade is to a SilverSonic

S

I agree with what Matt K is telling you. I'm currently playing a Getzen 1062 and using a Greg Black 1GS .312 with leadpipe #1. When I tried this mouthpiece with leadpipe #3 the low register doesn't pop at all. So try combos of your mouthpiece and leadpipes...it can be quite different.

YooperHorn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 10:39 am I agree with what Matt K is telling you. I'm currently playing a Getzen 1062 and using a Greg Black 1GS .312 with leadpipe #1. When I tried this mouthpiece with leadpipe #3 the low register doesn't pop at all. So try combos of your mouthpiece and leadpipes...it can be quite different.

Thanks! I’ve got to ask: with that user name are you in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan? I’m in mid-Michigan.

Briande wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2023 1:50 pm [
Thanks! I’ve got to ask: with that user name are you in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan? I’m in mid-Michigan.

Ya You betcha! I'm from Da U.P.