TromboneChat

It is not infrequent that this forum features criticisms of the current state of the historically most popular makers and the modern trend toward imported instruments. And, it is easy for me to appreciate, because in nearly all endeavors, I am a hopeless luddite and retro-grouch. But, as I reflect on my brief ITF adventure, whether one is after incredible artisanal build quality, grouchy boutique-y features, a great range of options to suit particular performance needs, or predictability and affordability, it is hard for me to see how this isn’t by far the best time to be a trombone enthusiast.

For a consistent, reliable instrument that will work well in a range of settings, I’m not sure I’d rather travel back to the 60’s as opposed to choosing a new Yamaha, Getzen, or Adams. I know for certain that I’d rather not be forced to choose from the 70s, 80s, and early 90s options. At a different price point, it likely isn’t worth reiterating the advantages of the range of Edwards, Rath, and Shires options over what was available back in the day. And, I’m pretty sure imported instruments will ultimately offer students an unparalleled combination of price and quality (even if we aren’t there yet ).

The real fun, though, is at the high end, and this post is motivated by my recent opportunity to try a Stephens and recent receipt of a used M&W 322T. Sadly, I’ve never tried a Williams or a Minnick. But, they appear to have been somewhat inconsistent, offered a rather limited range of options, and were relatively hard to get. It certainly doesn’t appear there have ever been makers offering the combination of perspective and quality with as many options as you can get now with a mouse click. The build quality of the Stephens and M&W instruments is unimpeachable. I don't think there have previously been options that combine everything I love about my ‘34 70H with everything we’ve learned since, let alone so many opportunities for personal touches and tweaks.

While it is generally true that everything gets better in most ways from decade to decade (that could start fights!), it is not true as applied to each particular pursuit. “Progress” does not always advance quality, longevity, or user experience. (Do you like touching plastic?). Perhaps more significantly, despite the benefits of modern manufacturing and computer modeling, unlike with trombones, some performance in other areas where we use relatively unchanged technology has probably been lost forever (I’m thinking of good tube amplifier output transformers, but arguably even reliability in aftermarket auto parts). (Even in the realm of orchestral instruments--But, it is probably best to not go too far down the road of opining on the plights of some of our colleagues in the woodwind section.)

The thesis, perhaps, of my extended post is that as a seeker of lovingly made, incredibly functional, artisanal stuff with a range of options, I’m attempting to not take our times for granted. I get great thrills from hunting down and messing with old horns. But, I also ponder whether I’d have been too focused on something even older and stranger to patronize Williams or Minnick in their day. Custom trombones aren’t accessible for everyone. But, there are much more lucrative ways for our current slate of builders to pursue passions for fine craftsmanship. And, if we’re not careful, forums in 30 years could be bemoaning the demise of a golden era of trombone making and we could be hopelessly fighting to find the scraps of instruments that are now readily available. And besides, they are also pretty great to play in the interim.

Paul

Conn-Selmer is certainly not in a golden age, but the trombone market as a whole probably is. I would argue the real peak was around 2015-2018 when the used market hadn't inflated to the moon yet, but it is still a great time (gear-wise) to be a trombone player. There are great options for nearly all budgets everywhere you look.

Pro/custom: M&W, Shires, Rath, Edwards, Thein, Stephens, Adams, Arkbone, Leuchter, Schilke/Greenhoe, Laetzsch, B&S, K&H, Haag, Courtois, Yamaha, Getzen, Voigt, Throja, Schagerl, Kromat, Butler, Inderbinen

Lower-priced options: JP Rath, Rath 00 series, Shires Q, Eastman 800 series, Y-Fort, Victory

Used: Elkhart Conns, Bachs from all eras, older Yamaha gems, Holtons, King 2Bs/3Bs, Benge, Kanstul (RIP), Williams

And that's all just off the top of my head! I'm sure there are many more that I'm forgetting. We haven't even talked about all the great mouthpiece makers, aftermarket part makers (e.g. Instrument Innovations), and techs that do great custom work that we have to choose from.

(One n in Mr M)

The floor moves more than the ceiling, but it's hard to disagree.

It's telling just how commercially unglamorous the whole concept of fixed models has become, even as the archetypal designs remain highly influential. I'm sure the Williams approach lost him customers back in the day, too, but there's still something laudable about the pursuit of refinement by degree.

Anyway, if humanity's in any shape to be trombemoaning in 30 years, it won't be because individual players failed to appreciate the auriferousness of our current age... it's the macro factors that make it difficult to stay solvent in this field while remaining small enough for "custom" to have any real meaning.

It'll be interesting to see whether this period generates new archetypes, or whether the new continues to be viewed through mostly the same incrementalist "tweak/ease/personalize" lens relative to the old classics. Thayerized Bach 50 (and descendants) has made it. Is "the Alessi horn" is enough of A Thing? Can't think of many others - perhaps the Elliot Mason concept could take off in a parallel universe with much more of a market. I suppose the basic issue is that the mainstream tonal dials haven't shifted all that radically in the last 50 years (orchestral bass being the closest to an exception). By comparison, skip back to 1923 and it's magma for dinner.

Finetales wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 2:49 pm Conn-Selmer is certainly not in a golden age, but the trombone market as a whole probably is. I would argue the real peak was around 2015-2018 when the used market hadn't inflated to the moon yet, but it is still a great time (gear-wise) to be a trombone player. There are great options for nearly all budgets everywhere you look.

I am also tempted to say the golden age may have passed. The price inflation of new instruments from C-S has also been quite noticeable in the past few years, without any significant change in design or improvement in quality (that’s putting it politely). Let’s face it, they’re still a go-to choice for many advancing students and keen amateurs so a reasonable yard stick for the general state of things. Some price re-adjustment may have been necessary but it’s hard to say how much because of external factors and how much down to the management of C-S.

The number of established and emerging custom/boutique makers is a positive. On the other hand, artisan craftsmen are not a new phenomenon, I think there’s just a bit more global visibility of them, maybe in some cases a bit of hype.

I don’t want to get to dystopian about it but I think the most likely driver for further decline of the likes of C-S is a reduction in access to subsidised music lessons for school kids. It won’t help any of us if in 20 years time we have a basement full of golden era 2023 horns but nobody to play them with apart from some sort of Joe Alessi avatar.