Use case for Butler basses: non professionals that like utility.
Seriously, if I get the flare that I picked up cut…. I’m not sure that the added utility will ever be over ruled by the improved sound of other horns for me. Just so easy to use and handle. Not sure I can imagine using it in any paid orchestra or top band type gig, for that I’d probably still go back to a normal horn that just sounds better.
And yeah, that experience with Doug matches mine from decades ago exactly… still played that mouthpiece last night, too.
Cheers,
Andy
Re: ITF 2023 Report: Equipment
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:14 pm
by Reedman1
Aidan, what specifically did you not like about the Butler tenor you tried? (If you remember). All you said about it is that it sucked. I play a Butler JJ, and I like it a lot. Mind, I'm not a professional trombonist, so you may discount my experience. But I like the light weight; I get a nice sound and clear articulations, I can project, and I can play as fast as my technique allows. It seems like a pretty good horn to me. I'm curious what you didn't like and why. Can you elaborate a bit?
Re: ITF 2023 Report: Equipment
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:34 pm
by Burgerbob
Reedman1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:14 pm
Aidan, what specifically did you not like about the Butler tenor you tried? (If you remember). All you said about it is that it sucked. I play a Butler JJ, and I like it a lot. Mind, I'm not a professional trombonist, so you may discount my experience. But I like the light weight; I get a nice sound and clear articulations, I can project, and I can play as fast as my technique allows. It seems like a pretty good horn to me. I'm curious what you didn't like and why. Can you elaborate a bit?
It felt pretty much like a pBone- did not center anything at all in any range. I'm sure there are better ones out there somewhere, but the one I played at the booth was awful.
Reedman1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:14 pm
Aidan, what specifically did you not like about the Butler tenor you tried? (If you remember). All you said about it is that it sucked. I play a Butler JJ, and I like it a lot. Mind, I'm not a professional trombonist, so you may discount my experience. But I like the light weight; I get a nice sound and clear articulations, I can project, and I can play as fast as my technique allows. It seems like a pretty good horn to me. I'm curious what you didn't like and why. Can you elaborate a bit?
It felt pretty much like a pBone- did not center anything at all in any range. I'm sure there are better ones out there somewhere, but the one I played at the booth was awful.
That’s weird.
Re: ITF 2023 Report: Equipment
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:16 pm
by Doug Elliott
My exhibit was next to Dave Butler's and I remember him saying there was something wrong with one horn and he was going to put it away... That was probably it. Had a leak or something.
Re: ITF 2023 Report: Equipment
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:48 pm
by Burgerbob
Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:16 pm
My exhibit was next to Dave Butler's and I remember him saying there was something wrong with one horn and he was going to put it away... That was probably it. Had a leak or something.
That's what it felt like to me!
Re: ITF 2023 Report: Equipment
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2023 11:15 pm
by CalgaryTbone
Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd jump in with my impressions of the horns (mostly .547) I tried at the ITF.
In no particular order: Shires - I enjoyed the new Alessi tenor (and the alto too). The Colin Williams and the David Rejano were also quite good. The Rejano is very interesting - very heavy red bell that was very resonant. I thought the Alessi f attachment section was the best of the 3 - didn't try it against a thayer or tru-bore which would have been interesting. The alto is only available as a Q series horn - they haven't made a custom model yet, but it was quite nice.
Stephens - Noah Gladstone (BrassArk) had a few. Really nice horns - there was one in particular that I almost took home. I would love to spend some more time with these horns, and would like to try some more bell/valve/slide combos some time. Great craftsmanship on these.
Schilke/Greenhoe - These also made a really good impression on me. There were one each of yellow, gold and red brass bells, and I liked them all. The different materials responded predictably in the way the various manufacturers usually describe the difference - the yellow bell was the most stable/even, while the red was dark at pp, but added some nice brilliance at ff. The gold split the difference between the others. Nice valve and these horns had personality in the sound.
Adams - I didn't play them for too long, but I enjoyed these horns too. There was a sterling silver alto with a B flat valve that was just fun to play. Very good instrument. A good company that doesn't have a big stake in the N. American market yet.
Thein - I only played the altos. Two models - the more traditional (Jay Freidman's model) has a .508 bore and a small bell (Kruspe inspired, I believe). Beautiful light and effortless horn. The other (NY model?) is equally good with a bit broader (orchestral) sound and a dual bore of .528/.547. In spite of that large size, the horn plays great, and there is a detachable valve that can be tuned to B flat or D (trill valve).
I was disappointed that Edwards and M & W didn't make it to the ITF this year - I was hoping to try the new version of the 396AR, and I've never had the chance to try any M & W's. I know that Edwards posted on their social media that they are slammed with orders and wanted to not fall behind on finishing their existing orders. I'm hoping to get a chance to play some of these horns soon! Also, I wish I made time to play a few more small bore horns - the time got away from me.
I may do another post on my favorite concerts/lectures. Lots of inspiring stuff in SLC this year.
Jim Scott
Re: ITF 2023 Report: Equipment
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 5:39 am
by afugate
CalgaryTbone wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 11:15 pm
I may do another post on my favorite concerts/lectures. Lots of inspiring stuff in SLC this year.
Jim Scott
I hope you do. I wasn't able to attend the ITF this year, but I did purchase the virtual option. I'd like to go back and watch some of these as time permits.
--Andy in OKC
Re: ITF 2023 Report: Equipment
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:18 am
by Tomnormann
CalgaryTbone wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 11:15 pm
Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd jump in with my impressions of the horns (mostly .547) I tried at the ITF.
In no particular order: Shires - I enjoyed the new Alessi tenor (and the alto too). The Colin Williams and the David Rejano were also quite good. The Rejano is very interesting - very heavy red bell that was very resonant. I thought the Alessi f attachment section was the best of the 3 - didn't try it against a thayer or tru-bore which would have been interesting. The alto is only available as a Q series horn - they haven't made a custom model yet, but it was quite nice.
Stephens - Noah Gladstone (BrassArk) had a few. Really nice horns - there was one in particular that I almost took home. I would love to spend some more time with these horns, and would like to try some more bell/valve/slide combos some time. Great craftsmanship on these.
Schilke/Greenhoe - These also made a really good impression on me. There were one each of yellow, gold and red brass bells, and I liked them all. The different materials responded predictably in the way the various manufacturers usually describe the difference - the yellow bell was the most stable/even, while the red was dark at pp, but added some nice brilliance at ff. The gold split the difference between the others. Nice valve and these horns had personality in the sound.
Adams - I didn't play them for too long, but I enjoyed these horns too. There was a sterling silver alto with a B flat valve that was just fun to play. Very good instrument. A good company that doesn't have a big stake in the N. American market yet.
Thein - I only played the altos. Two models - the more traditional (Jay Freidman's model) has a .508 bore and a small bell (Kruspe inspired, I believe). Beautiful light and effortless horn. The other (NY model?) is equally good with a bit broader (orchestral) sound and a dual bore of .528/.547. In spite of that large size, the horn plays great, and there is a detachable valve that can be tuned to B flat or D (trill valve).
I was disappointed that Edwards and M & W didn't make it to the ITF this year - I was hoping to try the new version of the 396AR, and I've never had the chance to try any M & W's. I know that Edwards posted on their social media that they are slammed with orders and wanted to not fall behind on finishing their existing orders. I'm hoping to get a chance to play some of these horns soon! Also, I wish I made time to play a few more small bore horns - the time got away from me.
I may do another post on my favorite concerts/lectures. Lots of inspiring stuff in SLC this year.
Jim Scott
Thank you for sharing your experience. It would be very interesting to hear more about Stephens horns.
I may do another post on my favorite concerts/lectures. Lots of inspiring stuff in SLC this year.
Jim Scott
I have notes about this but haven't written anything up... I may do that this week as well. Love to hear your thoughts!
Re: ITF 2023 Report: Equipment
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:52 am
by CalgaryTbone
I'm not sure I can add too much about the Stephens horns, except to say that they are nice instruments. There were 3 different valves there - one Rotax (fixed on one horn), and a couple of horns that had detachable valve sections where there was a Caidex (sp?) valve and a new in-shop valve that Steve has just started making. One reason that I didn't buy a horn is that I really want to somehow have a chance to really try more options before committing to purchase something. My favorite was the horn where it was all fixed in place with a rotax, but only by a small increment, so I would really like to try a couple of bell options, etc. to be sure.
