Help Identify an Olds Trombone

[Radman63]

Greetings!

I am (was) a trumpet player, but I came across and bought what I thought was an interesting trombone on eBay. It's an Olds. The serial number is 14840. That means made in 1945, right? There's no model name on the bell, just a big US.

I read that Olds converted to wartime production during WW2, but they still made a few instruments, and most of those were for the military. Could this be a model made for the military, hence the US, but not the per-war, beautiful military model with the hammered brass bell? Is that what I have here?

I paid $24.00 for it, so I figure any vintage horn that works has to be worth at least $24.00, right?

I did not receive this horn yet, but it's on its way. I'll link to a photo of the engraving on the bell. Hopefully, the link will work here. Thanks for any help you can give me.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6f0z2j81 ... kmli5&dl=0

[SlideCrook]

It will probably be a wartime Olds Standard/Self-Balancing.

Go to www.itsabear.com and have a look around.


Also know that Olds engravings can vary from horn to horn. I have 7 different Olds Studios with 7 different engravings.

[JohnL]

The pre-WWII Military was a specific model wasn't actually made for the military...

I generally use the term "US-marked" for instruments like this; it just keeps things clearer.

I've seen several US-marked Olds trombones with serial numbers around 15,000. Whether they were made during the war or soon thereafter is hard to say; the serial number lists from that era are pretty much educated guesswork. They're usually silver plated and in the same general configuration as the Standard Self-Balancing model.

Hard to go wrong for $24, even if it's so far gone that it's only good for lampification.

[Radman63]

The only information I was able to find out was on the robbsteweart.com site, and a small photo with little information from the hornucopia site. Here's what's on the robbstewart site:

During the war years, 1942 to 1945, Olds switched to production of components needed for mobilization of the US military. The governmental mandate restricted the use of strategic materials such as brass. Former employees reported the manufacturing of gun sights for the effort and there were likely other parts and subassemblies produced. It had been believed that no musical instruments were produced, but there exist a good number of trumpets and cornets, mostly Super but also some Standard and Special models, with the satin silver finish that was most commonly ordered by the military in these years, with serial numbers roughly 13,000 to 15,000, indicate production during the 1940s.

If he's correct, doesn't this date the trombone to 1945?

[JohnL]

If he's correct, doesn't this date the trombone to 1945?

I wouldn't be that specific. Let me spin a couple theories for you...

1) The US military expanded with astonishing speed in the first couple years of our involvement in the war. I expect that would have included establishing new military bands (important to help keep up morale). They would have needed instruments for those new bands...

2) They would also have been a need for replacement instruments to replace any that were lost.

[Radman63]

Got it. Well, I should get it today, and I'll see if there are any other identifiable marks. I'll also clean it up and see if it plays. Thanks!

[officermayo]

Serial number on the bell.

[Radman63]

I can't see the files you posted. Says, "You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post." But, I've always known the serial number, and it is part of my first post: 14840, which is why I was under the impression it was made in 1945, although another member suggests that serial numbers at that time were not always accurate.

[Doug Elliott]

You should be able to see it now.
JohnL is the real authority on Olds history, he knows what he's talking about and has a large collection of Olds horns.

There's no definitive way to identify the year of production, the records don't exist.

[Radman63]

I can now see the attachments! My trombone has similar engraving, but I believe the bell, at least, is satin silver. Other than that, I am soaking in everything you all are saying and I appreciate all your replies.

I got the trombone today. It's not in bad condition. No major damage. I'm just having trouble telling what might be silver from what might be brass, so I know how to clean it. It seems like it's two different colors, but I'm not sure yet.

So, now, how do you play this thing? Just kidding. Kind of.

[walldaja]

Pictures of the slide? Bell looks in great condition.

[Doug Elliott]

It might be satin silver with burnished areas within the engraving with gold... that was a decorative technique in that era, although I don't think I've seen an Olds with it, mostly Conns.

For cleaning it, this works particularly well on satin silver. You don't want to use silver polish on satin silver, it tends to ruin the satin effect.

[JohnL]

Satin silver with the inside of the bell burnished and gold washed was a common finish (Finish 2 in some catalogs). Finish 2 burnished (i.e., the entire horn burnished to a mirror finish) was also an option.

There was also a FInish 2½:

Heavily silver plated, satin finish. Braces, hand grips, end crook, and inside of bell gold plated and hand burnished. Beautiful hand engraved design, gold inlaid.

These finishes weren't cheap. Finish 2 burnished or Finish 2½ cost 50% more than the base price in 1927.

[Radman63]

I know there seemed to be A LOT of finish options in the "old days". I'll publish more photos of what I have shortly, and any other info or opinions are most welcome. I also realize that I have to be careful with cleaning or polishing, or I'll turn a satin finish into a burnished (shiny) finish! Thanks.

[Radman63]

Here's a link to the original eBay listing. it contains a few photos, so feel free to check it out while it's still available. Although there have been comments as to the accuracy of serial numbers, I'm pretty sure it was mislabeled here as a 1970's model.

No. I didn't pay $111.00 for shipping.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166220646202?n ... 7675.l2557