TromboneChat

I wanted to ask this question because, i ve tried many mouthpieces in stores, and i after all i think i found something that works for me. I started on a 6 1/2AL for the first 3 years then i went to a 7C for 5 years but even though i liked the sound there was something about the bite i was not fully comfortable.
Atfer all a few months ago i went to a 12C and my range increased, my articulations got better and my endurance also improved. But the most important is that i feel comfortable. Also i like the bright sound of this mouthpiece. Range and endurance were always a problem but i feel better with this mp, and i feel that i would feel more comfortable if i go even smaller or shallower.
Thing is, since then i got all kinds of comments implying that "the 12C is a beginner mouthpiece only kids should use". And that "i should be playing on a 11C or 7C", "that an even smaller mouthpiece would ruin my sound and shouldn't be used on a trombone" I dont know how true is that so i wanted to ask the title question.
I play on a 500. Bore
Thank you.

I've played for sixty years, which means a bunch of horns and a lot of mouthpieces. Whatever you are using at the time is the right horn and the right mouthpiece for you. Those choices will probably shift over time. Then you will have a new right horn and right mouthpiece.
What has happened here is that you just got a taste of trash talk. Trumpets and trombones are particularly bad for that, though I've seen a lot of it in French horn sections, too. Baritones and tubas a bit less. If I got a buck for every time someone trashed me, I could call myself a professional.
Take it as a compliment. Pretty soon the other players will be trying 12Cs. BTW -- there's no such thing as a beginner mouthpiece.

I've never heard a beginner sound good on one so apparently not.

What does "a beginners mouthpiece" mean? If there is something called that then there probably is a mouthpiece that's for "intermediate" and "advanced" players too? I would say no, it doesn't work like that. A professional can make use of any mouthpiece but may prefer a certain one, a beginner can not handle a single one. The beginner is on a journey that involves finding the best mouthpiece for him, but anyone needs a lot of experiense and playing before they can master any mouthpiece. This is my experience but there are also other theories about finding the right mouthpiece. A mouthpiece is often a compromise of many things. It needs to make your type of playing easier. Before you know what you like then you should choose an average mouthpiece that fits your mouth, not too deep, not to wide rim, not too shallow and not to narrow. A 12C is often what is packed with many horns but it is not really a beginners mouthpiece because there is no such thing, we are all individuals. A 12C has been what makers put in the case by tradition and therefore this is the first mouthpiece. From there people go anywhere. This means many people think of the 12C as the one they started on and then abandoned. That's why they associate the mouthpiece with their beginning years.

/Tom

The 12C became known as a beginner's mouthpiece during a whole different era, probably mid-20th century or even a little earlier. At that time, it wasn't a particularly small mouthpiece - while most professionals who chose Bach mouthpieces may have played 11Cs or 7Cs, many played 12Cs or even smaller mouthpieces. During that era, for the kind of music that was played, the kind of groups trombone players played in, the kind of instruments that were popular, (smaller, .485 bores were the most common) and the sound that was in style, the 12C was a well-designed and safe choice that was probably a far better bet for most beginners than most of what was available.

Whether the 12C is still a good choice for a beginner is another matter. All of the factors I mentioned above have changed a great deal, so maybe not.

Not to mention that 12C mouthpieces were shipped from the factory with almost every small-bore student or intermediate trombone. Ergo - lots of beginners on 12Cs! That's all they were ever exposed to!

When I started playing in 1957 I was told to buy a Bach 12C. For my 8 year old face it was a good size. As I grew I moved to larger mouthpieces. Some people never need to change.

Is a 12C a beginner mouthpiece? Yes, if you start with it. But it's in the same boat as a 4G, a 6.5AL, 14D, or any other Bach mouthpiece. Each is good for someone in some application. A 12C can be the only mouthpiece you need.

While this isn't trombone related (I've been enjoying developing my embouchure on a Xeno for the past almost 2 years now), I found that the Bach 7C wasn't conducive for my high range so switched to a 3C and what a difference! I was handed the 1st parts for the holiday concert music and could comfortably play the high B natural (C even though it wasn't included on the score). As others have noted here, use whichever horn and mouthpiece that you're comfortable with.

SteveM wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:19 am During that era, for the kind of music that was played, the kind of groups trombone players played in, the kind of instruments that were popular, (smaller, .485 bores were the most common) and the sound that was in style, the 12C was a well-designed and safe choice that was probably a far better bet for most beginners than most of what was available.

I believe that in the mid-80s when I got my student (.500) trombone, it was described as a medium bore. That marketing copy was probably written during the swing band era.

My nephew just started trombone on a .547 with a 5G. I guess that's what the next generation will think is a beginner mouthpiece.

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:27 pm

SteveM wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:19 am During that era, for the kind of music that was played, the kind of groups trombone players played in, the kind of instruments that were popular, (smaller, .485 bores were the most common) and the sound that was in style, the 12C was a well-designed and safe choice that was probably a far better bet for most beginners than most of what was available.

I believe that in the mid-80s when I got my student (.500) trombone, it was described as a medium bore. That marketing copy was probably written during the swing band era.

My nephew just started trombone on a .547 with a 5G. I guess that's what the next generation will think is a beginner mouthpiece.

Sure a 5G may be what becomes standard if teachers decide to start students on .525 or .547 horns, and if beginners have physics to drive .547 horns then they might as well handle 5G mouthpieces too. I personally prefer that size on trigger horns to be able to make the most out of them.

Should I recommend a nine year old to start on a .547 horn? No, because I would advice something less heavy to both hold and blow. Should I recommend a grown up beginner to start on a .547 horn? No, but it would be a better match.

I think students over here start on pBones today and then they start on the plastic mouthpiece that comes along with it. What size is that? Most (probably 99%) quit.
A couple of years ago many teachers had the ide to start beginners on alto trombones? The brass mouthpieces that came with them were small, probably 12C. I wonder how that turned out. Never heard it helped anything, so it probably didn't produce more trombone players. I guess it only helped the Chinese economy because the horns were Chinese stencils.

/Tom

AtomicClock wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 8:27 pm

SteveM wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:19 am During that era, for the kind of music that was played, the kind of groups trombone players played in, the kind of instruments that were popular, (smaller, .485 bores were the most common) and the sound that was in style, the 12C was a well-designed and safe choice that was probably a far better bet for most beginners than most of what was available.

I believe that in the mid-80s when I got my student (.500) trombone, it was described as a medium bore. That marketing copy was probably written during the swing band era.

My nephew just started trombone on a .547 with a 5G. I guess that's what the next generation will think is a beginner mouthpiece.

How old is your nephew?

Hi

Yes, as long as the mouthpiece, whatever it is, feels confortable to you... Then there's no reason for thinking further. I feel at home with my Blessing 12C since ages... I'll stick with it !

I’ve used a Bach 12SC that had been my Dad’s back in his Army band baritone days in the late 40s since I was in 5th grade on baritones and still use it to this day in my trombone. Not good for euph, but I’ve never wanted to try anything else long term, other than to try an old Bach 12 I acquired with a baritone many years ago, and the King 3 that came with the horn just to check them out. Both easily playable, but not as sweet sounding and feeling as old faithful.