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Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 11:23 pm
by BassBoneWaluigi
It is unreasonably confusing that these two brands, made in the same factory, using mostly the same materials and parts(on custom models) are split across two websites, artist lineups, etc.
Like wouldn't it be so much simpler to have:
Getzen Brass:
Student models
Eterna Series
"Edwards"Custom Series(the Edwards modular horns and Getzen Custom horns)
Artist Series(396AR, 502I/D, 4047IB/ET)
I absolutely love my Getzen custom bass but man this is so unnecessary
Smh my head
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 11:33 pm
by Burgerbob
Why do the Japanese car brands have luxury brand offshoots that are largely the same as their cheaper offerings, but with leather seats? Same reason.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:17 am
by Klimchak
As someone who was around and shopping for a horn when Edwards first came out, I think it was more to distance themselves from Getzen who did not have a great name in the symphonic trombone realm. Once Edwards starting gaining legitimacy, Getzen introduced some of the new trombones that are based on popular Edwards specs. Getzen may not have been as successful with those horns if they had just gone straight to them without the clout of saying “based on Edwards.”
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:26 am
by Trav1s
Branding for sure. I started playing trumpet in the early 80s on a Getzen 300 series trumpet. I remember my teacher not having kind things to say about the Getzen line. The irony of our small town is the major music store only sold Getzen brass at the time.
Today, their horns are worlds different than The Dude and old 300 series. If I was to buy another horn, Getzen/Edwards would definitely be at the top of my list - 4147IB immediately to mind.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 9:38 am
by Finetales
Same reason Jupiter changed their professional horns from "Jupiter" to "Jupiter XO" to just "XO". Branding your high-end offerings different from the low end is a tried and true tactic, especially if the basic brand doesn't have the most stellar reputation.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:55 am
by BassBoneWaluigi
I'm sorry to continue with the stupid questions, but why don't they just brand everything as "Edwards," or at least all the custom reserves as "Edwards?"
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:58 am
by Burgerbob
Why do the Japanese automakers still sell top trim models of their lower brands? Same reason.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 11:56 am
by harrisonreed
BassBoneWaluigi wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:55 am
I'm sorry to continue with the stupid questions, but why don't they just brand everything as "Edwards," or at least all the custom reserves as "Edwards?"
Lol, why is this messing with your head and making you unreasonably confused? Your response is very much not in line with the situation. A company sells trombones, some of which are getzens, and some of which are Edwards. They are made in the same place. This is like a cereal company selling Special K, Special K Protein, Special K Strawberry, Cheerios, apple Cheerios, and Honey Nut Cheerios. All of these cereals are made of the same things -- wheat, sugar, and BHT -- and in the a same factory. Nothing to be confused about at all. Not everyone wants Cheerios.
UMI used to make Bach, King, and Conn at the same time, under the same umbrella.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:05 pm
by BassBoneWaluigi
Yeah I think I just ain't right in the head
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:57 pm
by Matt K
Not nearly as confusing as the “Eastman by Shires” lineup. Now that was confusing!
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:02 pm
by BassBoneWaluigi
Matt K wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 5:57 pm
Not nearly as confusing as the “Eastman by Shires” lineup. Now that was confusing!
True Haha!
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 12:10 am
by JohnL
I think it has at least something to do with the intertwined history of the Getzen company, the Getzen family, Allied Music Corporation, and Edwards.
Edwards wasn't originally part of Getzen, it was part of Allied. At the time, Allied was owned by Tom and Ed Getzen (grandsons of the founder of the Getzen company) and was not connected to the Getzen company.
A couple years later, the Getzen company went bankrupt and Allied purchased the company assets, bringing the company back under the control of the family. They took what they'd learned producing Edwards and Canadian Brass instruments and completely revamped the Getzen trombone line (they made a lot of other changes, too).
So that gave them a highly regarded brand (Edwards) and a brand with a somewhat tarnished reputation that they really wanted to restore (after all, it's the family name). Not surprising that they'd keep both going.
You'll also notice that the Edwards dealer network is a much more select group compared to the Getzen dealer network.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 5:48 am
by tbonesullivan
The difference was definitely a lot more clear before the introduction of the original Alessi T-396AR, which was the first non modular horn Edwards had made. Before that, Edwards horns were all custom fit with modular components, and based on a much different business model than the Getzen horns, which were set specification production line horns.
However I can definitely see the reason they would want to keep the lines separate. Going in to get "fitted" for an Edwards Custom horn is still very much part of the process for much of the Edwards customer base.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 7:36 am
by BassBoneWaluigi
JohnL wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2023 12:10 am
I think it has at least something to do with the intertwined history of the Getzen company, the Getzen family, Allied Music Corporation, and Edwards.
Edwards wasn't originally part of Getzen, it was part of Allied. At the time, Allied was owned by Tom and Ed Getzen (grandsons of the founder of the Getzen company) and was not connected to the Getzen company.
A couple years later, the Getzen company went bankrupt and Allied purchased the company assets, bringing the company back under the control of the family. They took what they'd learned producing Edwards and Canadian Brass instruments and completely revamped the Getzen trombone line (they made a lot of other changes, too).
So that gave them a highly regarded brand (Edwards) and a brand with a somewhat tarnished reputation that they really wanted to restore (after all, it's the
family name). Not surprising that they'd keep both going.
You'll also notice that the Edwards dealer network is a much more select group compared to the Getzen dealer network.
That's really interesting. Love to see when a family really values their history.
(Ill shut up now)
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:54 am
by harrisonreed
Like, what is the deal really? I have a feeling your premise is not really about Getzen selling and making both Edwards and Getzens in the same shop. If you're happy with your getzen, that's all that counts right? I was being tongue in cheek with my first post up there because I thought you were kind of joking, but now I'm curious as to what you're actually thinking about.
I think the two getzens I've been able to play are right up there with the best trombones I've ever played, period They don't play exactly like the Edwards, either. The new non-modular stuff seems to be like really good, improved Conn designs.
Edwards is it's own thing.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:24 am
by BassBoneWaluigi
Nah I'm not upset about anything. Not upset about my horn at all
I just like to complain about super obscure nitpicks
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 1:32 am
by whitbey
Getzen you buy.
Edwards you get fitted.
Both brands have evolved to an incredible level of quality.
Perception and reality have changed much in the last 30 years of Edwards let alone the decades of Getzen.
How much have the GM Pontiac cars changed?
It is just Biz.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 6:07 am
by TromboneMonkey
It's just market segmentation.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/ma ... tation.asp
In a nutshell, by separating a target demographic into subgroups, a company can more easily tailor products to be attractive to each subgroup and thereby increase sales.
It's also the entire reason record labels exist(ed). Because they figured out it is easier to sell records if they are labeled with specific genres or marketed using specific tactics that appeal to smaller groups, rather than trying to appeal to larger ones.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Wed May 03, 2023 12:01 pm
by ACBEric
Simple answer is that Edwards are totally customizable. Getzen are not. The custom reserve trombones are basically Edwards with Getzen stamped on them but you cannot pick features or change the horns like you can with an Edwards.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Wed May 03, 2023 12:33 pm
by brassmedic
ACBEric wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 12:01 pm
Simple answer is that Edwards are totally customizable. Getzen are not. The custom reserve trombones are basically Edwards with Getzen stamped on them but you cannot pick features or change the horns like you can with an Edwards.
That used to be true, but then Getzen started making modular horns, and Edwards started making non-modular horns.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Wed May 03, 2023 12:36 pm
by ACBEric
brassmedic wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 12:33 pm
ACBEric wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 12:01 pm
Simple answer is that Edwards are totally customizable. Getzen are not. The custom reserve trombones are basically Edwards with Getzen stamped on them but you cannot pick features or change the horns like you can with an Edwards.
That used to be true, but then Getzen started making modular horns, and Edwards started making non-modular horns.
well...then I don't know. I go with the earlier answer about cars then. Or like Bruce Horsby said... "that's just the way is". And who are we to argue with Bruce?
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Wed May 03, 2023 1:03 pm
by BGuttman
Erm, it's Brad, not me.
I'm the guy who has flashbacks to my Getzen from 1957, back when they were less than desirable. I understand Getzens are much better than when I had mine so I tend to keep my mouth shut in these kinds of discussions.
I should point out that having multiple brands made in the same factory is not uncommon. At one time you could tour a GM assembly plant and see a Chevrolet, a Pontiac, a Buick, and an Oldsmobile all on the same line. King and Benge instruments were all made in the Eastlake Ohio plant. For a while all the Conn-Selmer trombones were made in Eastlake except for Bach.
Basically Edwards is promoted as a premium line and Getzen as a more pedestrian line. Much like GM does between Cadillac and all the other brands.
Re: Why both Getzen and Edwards?
Posted: Wed May 03, 2023 4:37 pm
by Matt K
It does seem that the “artist” horns are primarily in the Getzen lineup now that the T396 is no longer endorsed by Alessi. And while the Getzen large bore and bass from their professional line are modular, they basically only come with a yellow or red bell option. The modularity is kind of required to be able to clean the Thayer valves and none of the other Getzens are modular.