TromboneChat

I'm in highschool and currently i play on a getzen Eterna dependent bass trombone, I'm looking for something that will get be through high school and college, there aren't any big instrument dealers near me so i cant really try trombones in person, I've been looking at a bach 50a3l and a shires tbq36ga with BYC tuning slides. but I'm open any recommendations. I would prefer something that isn't a rotor and is under 7k

What are your goals? Are you planning to be a professional? High level amateur? Study trombone in college?

Quite frankly, if the 1062 isn't damaged it could last you a lifetime. Win an audition to the Dallas Symphony? Probably not.

If you are going to study in college, you might want to discuss with your prospective prof what to buy. Whatever you get now may not be suitable at that time.

If your 1062 is shot, nearly anything will serve until you get to college. I would suggest perhaps the 3062, which has axials.

I'm curious to know why you don't want any rotors. There have been excellent rotor based instruments; especially with some of the newer designs like TruBores, etc. Not every rotor trombone is as bad as the Bach 42 or 50.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:50 pm What are your goals? Are you planning to be a professional? High level amateur? Study trombone in college?

I'm curious to know why you don't want any rotors. There have been excellent rotor based instruments; especially with some of the newer designs like TruBores, etc. Not every rotor trombone is as bad as the Bach 42 or 50.

I plan on playing professionally after college and all the rotors ive tried even the ones on my current horn(Which is currently for the 5th time) involve too much work to switch between open notes and valve notes, sometimes i have anticipate that im about to use the trigger but with an axial shires custom that my friend uses low notes just come out specially the low d to low c range

recently i tried the george curran artist model bass trombone and i loved it but it was over 9k including taxes and interest so i want something that open but not as expensive, i was thinking of maybe ordering a shires custom bass trombone with byc tuning slides once i got more money

Bruce said, “Quite frankly, if the 1062 isn't damaged it could last you a lifetime. Win an audition to the Dallas Symphony? Probably not.”

This reminds me of a story that, back in the day, Jeff Reynolds tried out a 1062, then a new model, at a NAMM show and insisted on buying and taking the horn with him. According to the story, the Getzen reps told him the horn had been sold but relented when they were told “I’m Jeff Reynolds and I plan on using this horn tonight with the LA Phil.”

Check out Aidan RIchtie's stuff (Link below). He is a bass trombone buying expert. I think he posts on here and will probably chime in. He has a really good youtube channel where he can give you the pros and cons of all the valves and horns.

As far as picking a horn, find a way to play a few horns, at a decent store or maybe a festival where there are exhibitors. Such as midwest music makers festival or ITF. If you can't do that, pick a player who has the sound you like and try their set up.

Rotors are not what they used to be. Any Getzen/Edwards/Shires/Bach will have way better roters than the old ones. Check out all the big time orchestra guys and studio guys playing jazz/commercial stuff, most play on rotors now. Back in the 90's everyone played on Axiel/Thayers bc the rotors were kind of stuffy. That is also why there are so many old dependent horns. No one wanted to have to blow thru two roters all the time.

I play on an Edwards duel independent rotax valves. They are great. I love the way they play. No real sound or feel change. With the Axiels I always felt the valves required a little more air to really make them sing. So to me old rotors were too stuffy, good Axiels are too free blowing and air hungry. New roters such as , Rotax, Trubore, and other new rotars are excellent. Fast, even, and low maintenance and easy to align.

Making a phrase on bass is always hard. I try to get the smallest most nimble brilliant bass I can find. That mostly has to do with the sound you want. If you want a large, sometimes woofy tuba sound, go big bell and heavy thayers. I have not played the new instrument innovations(infinity valve) Bach's but the design makes much more sense and probably makes the valve faster and smoother.

Don't let anyone tell you, if you don't play X, you will never win an audition. A strong player can sound great on anything, it is just a matter of finding equipment that makes it as easy as possible to get the sound you want, doesn't mess with your endurance, and leaves lots of brain power to focus on playing good music and being a musician rather than merely a trombonist. A good test is to play for a good musician who plays a woodwind or even better a string player. If they like your sound and playing, you are on to something. You really don't want to be playing for other trombone players.

If you have any friends who do play brass instruments, bring them along. Sometimes the sound behind the bell is different than in front 20 feet out. You want a good sound in front of the bell bc that is where the audition committee or audience sits.

By way of background, I have played professionally for 25 years. I currently have too many horns than my wife would like to know about. My bass is the same one that James Markey plays with a 1 1/2 G Faxx bach copy.

I play everything from classical to jazz on horns from small bore Lawler's to bass and Euph. I play from super Bb an octave above middle C down to the double pedals on whichever horn I am playing for the day. I try to do a similar warm up over the whole range on all my horns. Obviously the high stuff sounds better on small equipment and vice versa.

This post is already too long, IM me if you want to chat some more.


Horns are expensive, buy used. Check out Dillon Music, Brass Exchange, and Brass Ark.



http://brassark.com/

www.dillonmusic.com/

www.thebrass-exchange.com/

www.youtube.com/watch?v=idRWgmrnco4&t=2 ... danRitchie

I don't blame you for wanting to move on from the 1062- I personally find them to be... not great.

I think there are a few horns you could get now that would be an upgrade, but not necessarily be a lifetime horn- Yamaha 613H, a good Bach 50, used Getzen 3062 or Edwards 454, etc.

I wouldn't go straight for the Shires Q unless you can find an amazing deal.

If you want to play in the future, I would plan on this horn being an "intermediate" instrument- something that will get you through high school, some college, and then when you have some of your playing things more locked in, you can decide what you REALLY want. I definitely wouldn't want to be stuck with a horn I chose in high school now.

Sounds like you may be into axials, if you like the Getzen and can find one with axials, that’ll probably be a good fit.

Pedagogically wise, all valves blow differently and learning to blow with and through them is a skill that imo people don’t talk about

Just to be perfectly clear ----- dependent valve setups may present a slightly more resistant blow, but they also offer a color change that can be exploited successfully by attention to that difference. An even blow through both valves is not necessarily a criteria.

I guess a question would be: what is your end goal of playing in college? If you are going to be a performance major, most will expect you to have an independent setup, which offers some advantages in terms of low range facility. A lot of more recent music written for bass trombone definitely is easier to play with an independent horn, with quick access to four different keys, while a dependent horn just has the 3 keys, and cannot use the paddle independently.

Now, what year are you? Are you studying privately? Do you have any thoughts of where you want to go college?

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 6:21 pm I guess a question would be: what is your end goal of playing in college? If you are going to be a performance major, most will expect you to have an independent setup, which offers some advantages in terms of low range facility. A lot of more recent music written for bass trombone definitely is easier to play with an independent horn, with quick access to four different keys, while a dependent horn just has the 3 keys, and cannot use the paddle independently.

Now, what year are you? Are you studying privately? Do you have any thoughts of where you want to go college?

I'm a sophomore in high school and I want to go to Vanderbilt

americanbozo wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 6:25 pmI'm a sophomore in high school and I want to go to Vanderbilt

I'd say you definitely have some time to find a good horn. I know players who have been very happy with the Getzen 1052FD / 1052FD horns. They have a nice build quality, and you definitely get more for your money than going for anything Bach, if you buy new.

Finding a private teacher to work with would be a very good idea, as they can definitely help with horn needs and recommendations.

americanbozo wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:57 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:50 pm What are your goals? Are you planning to be a professional? High level amateur? Study trombone in college?

I'm curious to know why you don't want any rotors. There have been excellent rotor based instruments; especially with some of the newer designs like TruBores, etc. Not every rotor trombone is as bad as the Bach 42 or 50.

I plan on playing professionally after college and all the rotors ive tried even the ones on my current horn(Which is currently for the 5th time) involve too much work to switch between open notes and valve notes, sometimes i have anticipate that im about to use the trigger but with an axial shires custom that my friend uses low notes just come out specially the low d to low c range

IMO, what types of valves are on the horn matter, but not nearly to the extent that I would build an instrument around them. That's not to say that the instrument you have is a great fit, nor that the Shires you tried is a bad instrument... just that the Shires you tried is almost certainly different in several ways other than just the axials vs. rotors.

That said, having independent rotors is nice and I do somewhat regret playing on dependents as long as I did out of having indys be too far out of my budget for a very long time.

Given your age though, I think it isn't unreasonable to stick with what you have for perhaps a little longer. It would almost certainly be worth going to a convention to try things out, or to a place like Dillon's, Baltimore Brass, etc. to try out a wide variety of used instruments (assuming you're US based). I would recommend taking some of that 7k budget and doing that. Better, in my mind, to spend say, $1k travelling to one of these places, trying out 30 horns, and picking out the best one than dropping $7k on something bought blind. Caveat: I'm a massive hypocrite, although all my blind purchases have been much cheaper

That said, I would also recommend two things. First, having a tech make sure your rotors are aligned, the slide is in good working condition, etc. A slight misalignment can really make an instrument a dog, especially one that has as big a bore size. Secondly, if you only have one leadpipe, I would recommend getting a Bach 50 replica or Edwards/Getzen 1 leadpipe. You may also be able to loosely thread your friends Shires pipe to try (it won't go all the way, but a few mm of extra threads exposed to try won't hurt anything). Leadpipe can make a HUGE difference in feel in the register you claim to be having trouble with. According to the site, it comes with a #2 by default, and you may find a 1 or a Bach 50 pipe to give you a bit more even of a blow in that register.

We're going down a lot of rabbit holes here. Let's try to simplify.

First of all, do you have a private teacher? If you want to play professionally and you're setting your sights on Vanderbilt to study trombone in college (great choice, and there are other great choices too), you should start working with an excellent private teacher right away if you haven't already. This is a more important investment of money than a new bass trombone. And your private teacher will be a much better resource for advice on an instrument than the internet.

I am assuming the Getzen you're playing belongs to your school and you need a bass trombone of your own. Am I correct? And you're already told us you are ambitious about the trombone.

In that case here is my advice, as a teacher of both ambitious high school students and college and graduate students: a Shires Q series is a great choice, and I would advise you to go for it. Don't worry about the BYC tuning slide; just start by playing the horn as it comes.

As it happens, there is a used George Curran model posted for sale on facebook marketplace:

Your profile says that your location is DFW. I'm assuming Dallas-Fort Worth? Houghton Horns is within an hour drive of you. They are a Shires dealer.

Go talk to Dennis Bubert, bass trombonist of the DFW orchestra. He will be able to give you lists of insight into different types of bass trombones.

Christian Paarup is the trombone sales guy at Houghton Horns.

Dennis Bubert is bass trombone with the Ft Worth Symphony
Darren Mchenry is bass trombone with Dallas Symphony as well as Brian Hecht former bass trombone with the Atlanta Symphony and now utility with the Dallas Symphony.

If you are on the east side of DFW you are also close to A&M-Commerce where Jimmy Clark is and John Wasson is on faculty there as well. Heather Mensch is a wonderful bass trombonist teaches at Tyler Jr. College.