TromboneChat

For some weird reason I was never drawn to King trombones. After recently acquiring a King 607F I have come to a new appreciation of having the trigger behind the bell brace.

When I first got a trigger horn (AC 280) it was really awkward to hold. I ended up using a Neotech brace to trying to establish some amount of control of the horn with my left horn. I actually had two problems, first, I played a straight horn left handed for over 50 years when I finally got a trigger and second, the AC had the trigger forward of the bell brace.

Since that I looked at quite a few horns (Conn 88, Yamaha 44X, 421G, and Bach 42). Wherever I went there were no Kings available.

One of the bass trombones in several groups I play in had a King and he spoke highly of the trigger behind the bell brace.

After years of playing the AC and then a Shires Q I got comfortable enough to ditch the Neotech brace.

Now with the King it feels much more natural with the trigger behind the brace.

Question--why do so few makers place their brace like Kings? And part two, why is King so committed to their position?

I don't even want to bring up above or below the thumb--I had my Yamaha converted to make it more playable for me.

walldaja wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:34 am
Question--why do so few makers place their brace like Kings? And part two, why is King so committed to their position?

I can’t speak for any makers, but my guess is tradition, design, tooling, the cost to invest in new tooling, stubbornness…

Kings share parts with their non F attachment instruments. Easier to put the brace in the same spot every time and then tack on a lever if it’s for an F attachment. Plus on narrower bells, it works reasonably well ergonomically. Other F attschment instruments that are larger have different ergonomic constraints and overlapping parts so they have historically been oriented differently.

I love that King trigger position. I have a 7B (dual indie) and used to have 4B and 5B with this trigger position.

Other horns with the same trigger position are Holton TR-150 and TR-680. The King 3B, 3B+ (2125F), 607, and 608 all allow you to support the instrument with the web between thumb and forefinger. Older Olds and some older Conn trombones had this arrangement as well.

Some newer Kings do not have the thumb behind brace. If you look at a newer 7B the F valve tubing has a "truncated" sweep so that the bell brace can be in the same position as all other F-attachments.

I hear a lot of folks complaining about the thumb behind brace saying it's harder to actuate the trigger. This may be the case for people with short thumbs. You can fix this by putting something on the trigger to let you push it from further back; maybe a cork block or something.

I find it funny that people put various and sundry appliances like the Bullet Brace or Rest Bar to create a support point like the King bell brace on instruments set up to be held solely by the heel of the left hand.

Bruce Guttman : "I love that King trigger position." ------- I couldn't agree more !

I don't like King trigger locations. It can't really be adjusted, and if your hand doesn't fit... good luck!

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:43 pm I don't like King trigger locations. It can't really be adjusted, and if your hand doesn't fit... good luck!

This!
And that design doesn’t work with horns with wide slides unless you have big hands. It moves the wrist to a further position out and reaching to the mouthpipe can be difficult.

I am currently building a custom horn and the customer requested a King trigger. The problem is that he requested a valve that has straight (90 degree) ports coming out of the rotor. I am early in the process of building this horn (actually still waiting on parts) but I am not looking forward to figuring the linkages for this valve. If you study the King horns, you will notice that they are designed with A LOT of space between the two tubes that go in and out of the valve. I will not have that kind of space to work with on this custom horn.

My primary point is....the King trigger design really limits what type of horn and what type of linkage you can use with it. Other trigger designs have much more flexibility.

On my Holton 680 the valve is placed about an inch or so up the neckpipe (actually where it would be for a more normal F-attachment valve). The bell brace now leaves plenty of room for your thumb. Linkage needs to be a bit longer than is typically on a Conn, Bach, or Yamaha but the arrangement works.