TromboneChat

So, this year I'm back to playing tenor trombone parts in one of the orchestras I play in, instead of the bass trombone parts. My high range has definitely come back, however an old foe has resurfaced: the 7th Partial, which starts with G in sharp second position. F and F# are not a problem, but I'm having a lot of trouble hitting the G. We're playing the Elgar Enigma Variations, and I'm on 1st, which means a LOT of that G. The notes above it (part goes up to D) are no problem. I'm hitting those notes just fine, but not that dang G.

I'm considering using 4th position, which I've never done before, so I was wondering if anyone had tips for that 7th Partial G note. I've had this on several different setups, so I'm assuming it's gotta be something about ME, though I don't know why one particularly note would give me so many issues, though I can say that years ago I had the same issue, and it really just "went away" with practice. However I've been giving it a lot of practice, and it's still squirrely, and I end up in the wrong partial half the time.

For ease and accuracy, 4 things need to be tuned properly for the note you're playing:. Mouth cavity (tongue level), chops (vibrating area), pivot (horn angle and mouthpiece pressure), and instrument (slide position). I would bet at least two or three of those are not right when you're missing the G.

Exercise 48 on page 12 of this document is a good way to get at the problem of security on those high notes.

https://www.baylortrombones.com/uploads ... packet.pdf

Once a player can do this exercise well, he or she could move on to trying to pick the note out without slurring up to it.

I was having the same trouble with my high Ab, actually my entire high range was inconsistent. A lesson with Doug helped me solidify the things he mentioned. Now I spend the beginning of practice incorporating those things he mentioned and paying attention to them as I play. You know what? That horrible Ab is now beautiful and I cannot wait to see where my playing will go.

When I had problems with that, what solved it for me were a few things put together:

- interval exercizes. scales at intervals, interval jumps, arbans, anything that does intervals in patterns. Small and large intervals. Octave +. Anything that gets you hearing and playing the interval.
- at random places in your practice just stop, focus, hear the sound and play a G. Play it loud, play it soft. Play it till you hear G in your sleep. Not really perfect pitch, just persistent pitch.
- I've probably got these listed backwards, but the important one is to hear a G, buzz a G with the mouthpiece, put the mouthpiece in the horn and make sure a G is coming out. I had a problem where I was buzzing well above the note, so I'd crack a lot of notes. Not from weak chops, just from not hearing/matching the note correctly with the buzz.

Have a lesson with Doug !

VJOFan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:45 am Exercise 48 on page 12 of this document is a good way to get at the problem of security on those high notes.

https://www.baylortrombones.com/uploads ... packet.pdf

Once a player can do this exercise well, he or she could move on to trying to pick the note out without slurring up to it.

See, I have zero trouble doing those Remington range exercises slurred, and for tenor I use them as a warmup up to the 12th partial. I do them later in my routine tongued. However I usually skip the 7th partial, just as in those exercises.

Tonight I'm going to dig up "THE ONE" trombone that I haven't played in a while and see if I have the same experience.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:37 am For ease and accuracy, 4 things need to be tuned properly for the note you're playing:. Mouth cavity (tongue level), chops (vibrating area), pivot (horn angle and mouthpiece pressure), and instrument (slide position). I would bet at least two or three of those are not right when you're missing the G.

Tonight hopefully I'll have time with a mirror and tuner to really work out what's going on. I'm just not sure why F# and F are fine but it's just the G that gets me. I'm guessing it's not really where I think it is on the slide, and I've been brute forcing it in tune for a while.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:37 am For ease and accuracy, 4 things need to be tuned properly for the note you're playing:. Mouth cavity (tongue level), chops (vibrating area), pivot (horn angle and mouthpiece pressure), and instrument (slide position). I would bet at least two or three of those are not right when you're missing the G.

This ^

This is all brass playing is, from a technical perspective. It's as easy as figuring out how to do those things, and making sure you're not physically limited by the constraints of the mouthpiece rim.

I like to use glisses -- you can feel how each of the factors Doug has listed are interwoven and how they change, just by glissing from 1st to 4th in a given partial. You gotta make sure you're staying right in the middle of the slot as you move around.

*Edits fixed horrible typos

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:37 am For ease and accuracy, 4 things need to be tuned properly for the note you're playing:. Mouth cavity (tongue level), chops (vibrating area), pivot (horn angle and mouthpiece pressure), and instrument (slide position). I would bet at least two or three of those are not right when you're missing the G.

A side note: I would add the ears. We need to train our ears (actually our mind) to be able to hear the note accurately, too.

One more note:
Virtually all written exercises and warmups go up from the bottom.
Actually they work much better going down from the top.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:15 amI'm considering using 4th position,

Nothing wrong with that, if 7th partial is feeling unreliable. Every valved instrument plays that note in the 8th partial 1+2 and no one objects.

Oddly on my tenor the 7th partial responds super well, to the point that I often use it for F and E (in short 4th/5th respectively). If whatever combination of horn/mouthpiece/player you're working with makes those notes more trustworthy somewhere else... we've got options for alternate positions, we should use them where warranted.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:12 pm One more note:
Virtually all written exercises and warmups go up from the bottom.
Actually they work much better going down from the top.

Yeah, man. Do this exclusively until the low notes work great coming down from the top. Then and only then start exercises from the bottom. The game is to play easier and easier high notes and drag them down.

Before getting in to that routine I recall having an extreme 7th partial problem especially on the piece. If playing the G on the piece (and Ab and A) is a problem, there is likely an alignment problem with those other parts, not the horn.

Well, I hit that final High G in the Elgar Enigma Variations, and will continue to work on things. I think part of this is also I'm not in the same shape I was last time I played 1st trombone. I need to really work on getting more lip time to get everything working well again.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:37 pm

VJOFan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:45 am Exercise 48 on page 12 of this document is a good way to get at the problem of security on those high notes.

https://www.baylortrombones.com/uploads ... packet.pdf

Once a player can do this exercise well, he or she could move on to trying to pick the note out without slurring up to it.

See, I have zero trouble doing those Remington range exercises slurred, and for tenor I use them as a warmup up to the 12th partial. I do them later in my routine tongued. However I usually skip the 7th partial, just as in those exercises.

Tonight I'm going to dig up "THE ONE" trombone that I haven't played in a while and see if I have the same experience.

It's just the one exercise I was looking at. It holds the high note, has you pause, then reattack. It creates a situation to sort out all the coordination aspects referred to throughout this thread.

If you want slur exercises that go through that 7th partial I found Dr. Charles Colin's Advanced Lip Flexibilities to be very effective in making that partial just part of my playing. Most of them use that partial. They don't skip it.
https://charlescolin.com/product/advanc ... -trombone/

VJOFan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:38 am It's just the one exercise I was looking at. It holds the high note, has you pause, then reattack. It creates a situation to sort out all the coordination aspects referred to throughout this thread.

If you want slur exercises that go through that 7th partial I found Dr. Charles Colin's Advanced Lip Flexibilities to be very effective in making that partial just part of my playing. Most of them use that partial. They don't skip it.
https://charlescolin.com/product/advanc ... -trombone/

Ah! Now I see. Yes I do some of that as well. I usually do a tongued harmonic exercise later, which unfortunately doesn't go as well. I think I'm going to start putting the 7th partial into those, even though it is a bit out of the usual pattern. I need to get that feeling, setup, etc back in memory.