Tips on playing higher notes without tiring out too fast

[irtjames14]

Hello,

Hoping people can chime in their thoughts here... so I've been practicing the 'Achieved is the Glorious Work' trombone quartet piece, starting from the 4th trombone and working my way up. I'm practicing the 2nd trombone part and whenever I play these high notes (mostly the high F, E, Eb in this part), after a while, my mouth/jaw tires out and it becomes difficult to continue producing high note sounds..

Would anyone be kind enough to provide some tips on how I can continue playing higher notes for longer periods of time without tiring out my mouth and jaw so fast?

Or is this one of those things where I need to continue playing those high notes and build up muscle tolerance?

Thank you so much!
Jae

[hyperbolica]

There are no shortcuts. The more you play the stronger you get. You don't want to push so hard you hurt something or burn out, but you have to push into discomfort to get any advantage.

Two things that helped my high range were buzzing without a mouthpiece just a couple minutes at a time) and doing scales and intervals.

If you don't have a private teacher then you need one.

[BGuttman]

I used a variation on Remington's "Security in the Upper Register" exercise (#8). It consists of an arpeggio starting in 7th position E (in staff), G#, B, E (above staff), then down. All in 7th. Move up to 6th: F, A, C, F, and down. Move up to 5th: F#, A#, C#, F and down. I think you get the idea.

At some point you are going to poop out and miss the top note. Try no more than 3 times and if you miss all 3, stop for the day (and don't try the next day).

If you make it all the way to 1st in this 4 note arpeggio, add a note at the top: E, G#, B, E, F and down (in first this is Bb, D, F, Bb, C). Got the 5 note down? Got to 6.

Don't try to short cut the program. You can do more harm than good. Take it easy and you can bring your top range to F, top of the treble staff (2 octaves above F in the bass staff) or even more. It's not going to happen overnight. Expect very slow progress as you build your range.

[harrisonreed]

It's about finesse and understanding the function of the embouchure, direction of the air stream, and the tongue's role in all of that.

Copout answer, but the truth.

[irtjames14]

Thank you all for your response. Looks like I do have a ton of work cut out for me. I am just playing casually and not for school or work or anything.. I do try to practice a little bit every day (but may skip some days). I will put these info and try practicing this way. Thank you all!

[BoomtownRath]

I had this problem years back when I played tenor and eventually learned that I wasn't using my air correctly. The breathing gym helped and I started to use air speed to control my range. I also noticed that a larger mouthpiece enabled me to achieve this. I've been predominantly on bass for the past 12 years and have a better high range on my 1G sized mpc than I ever had on a 6 1/2 AL.

Saying that, lip flexabilities and slurred scales help really well. I 2nd what Bruce has suggested regarding material and keep at it, a break through will eventually happen.

BoomtownRath.

[Cmillar]

Two suggestions that will really work: (you do want something to really work, right?)

- get hold of the James Stamp Warmup routines for Trumpet, and just convert the exercises for trombone (plenty of information on line)

- get hold of Reinhardt Method materials.
Various ways to do this is:
1. get an online Zoom lesson with Doug Elliot who can prescribe what to work on (you can contact him throught this forum)
2. contact 'Wilktone' through this forum for advice and lessons
3. buy Reinhardt Method materials from:
Rich Willy's Boptism Music and 'The Reinhardt Study Zone

https://www.boptism.com/product-categor ... tudy-zone/

[norbie2018]

Two suggestions that will really work: (you do want something to really work, right?)

- get hold of the James Stamp Warmup routines for Trumpet, and just convert the exercises for trombone (plenty of information on line)

- get hold of Reinhardt Method materials.
Various ways to do this is:
1. get an online Zoom lesson with Doug Elliot who can prescribe what to work on (you can contact him throught this forum)
2. contact 'Wilktone' through this forum for advice and lessons
3. buy Reinhardt Method materials from:
Rich Willy's Boptism Music and 'The Reinhardt Study Zone

https://www.boptism.com/product-categor ... tudy-zone/

Esp. Focal Point. It'll change everything.

[VJOFan]

I can echo the "finesse" point above but with one caveat. I think, when players are full time performers they can underestimate exactly how built up their embouchures are.

As long as you can isometrically hold things together, it is possible to play with a fairly effortless feel. But when the muscles tire??

Personally, as an out of shape player, I play with everything feeling and working fine until it isn't. There is just a point where I can't maintain the control without stropping and taking a bit of a break. The more days I play, the longer I can go before hitting the wall.

[baileyman]

Strength helps always, but finesse makes it possible. Finesse includes being able to squidge the chops around in various ways in different ranges that fine tunes where they want to vibrate. It includes tuning the mouth volume to the desired range or pitch. It includes matching the air to what the chops need and can handle.

Without finesse, trying to do these adjustments feels totally uncoordinated and sometimes impossible. I can remember deliberately distorting my chops in new ways while playing just to get the feel of what adjustment was. Like, some ranges may want top curl in or out. Well, without getting familiar with the muscular isolation required to do it as required on the fly, it will likely feel like trying to lift a brick.

With finesse, an out of shape double Bb (or whatever typical OMG high note one may have) is quite possible, but not for long. Strength is still required, but it only helps a set that otherwise works.

Same goes for low notes.

[Mr412]

I call it getting a "flat tire". Others may refer to it as "hitting the wall". We all do it. And when it happens, it's time to use every trick in the book, including playing down an octave or two, if possible.

Keep working it! It'll come. Keep working it, but know when to stop. If we push too hard, we actually lose range and endurance a while. Keep working it. It will come.

[CharlieB]

Just a thought........
If your introduction to trombone was, "Place the mouthpiece however it feels comfortable, and blow," you might benefit from a lesson or two with a pro who can help you learn how to better utilize the musculature of your embouchure.

[Cmillar]

https://www.boptism.com/product-categor ... tudy-zone/

Esp. Focal Point. It'll change everything.

Hey, I'll have to check that one out for sure!

His publications are a great service to all.

[harrisonreed]

I can echo the "finesse" point above but with one caveat. I think, when players are full time performers they can underestimate exactly how built up their embouchures are.

As long as you can isometrically hold things together, it is possible to play with a fairly effortless feel. But when the muscles tire??

Personally, as an out of shape player, I play with everything feeling and working fine until it isn't. There is just a point where I can't maintain the control without stropping and taking a bit of a break. The more days I play, the longer I can go before hitting the wall.

The longer I've been playing, the more I've come to realize that with music it's all or nothing. You can search for high notes and strength, and completely miss the point of how difficult it is to just play a simple melody convincingly. To find your voice.

You can be an amateur and adopt that mind set. You can be a pro and forget the mind set. It'll show either way.

The search to find finesse will naturally build up sympathetic endurance without any strength building program. Brad Edwards has it laid out beautifully in his book. Play that for a year, an hour a day, or even a half hour a day, with a self-critical all or nothing attitude. The high notes are in there, built on a huge pyramid of low notes.

What you can't do is obtain a high note from a sentence.

[norbie2018]

High range - range in general - is coordination of breath, oral cavity, tongue level, and hearing the dog-gone note in your head. There are other factors inherent to your facial makeup, and that's where a couple of lessons with a Reinhardt disciple like Doug Elliot may come in handy as well as proper equipment that fits you. The book Focal Point helps you put all these things together and is highly recommended after you take a lesson with Doug.

[Cmillar]

High range - range in general - is coordination of breath, oral cavity, tongue level, and hearing the dog-gone note in your head. There are other factors inherent to your facial makeup, and that's where a couple of lessons with a Reinhardt disciple like Doug Elliot may come in handy as well as proper equipment that fits you. The book Focal Point helps you put all these things together and is highly recommended after you take a lesson with Doug.

This...read the quote above

[aasavickas]

I was struggling with articulation up high on the high Db in Bolero.

Turns out, that partial is high on my horn. Moved the slide up a bit and it sounds great. I was inadvertently lipping it and causing some fuzz.

If high notes, or any other notes are not working, try moving the slide up or down a bit.

[stevenvortigern]

It's a very natural tendency, when first learning the trombone, to associate the high register with bodily tension and the feeling that you need to clamp down or squeeze to get the high notes to speak. Getting good at the high register is more about breaking this association and the unconscious bad habits that go with it than it is about learning some special technique. If you can do this over time, you'll find that the high register feels very similar to the middle register.

It's also true that you can find a way to work with the bad tension habits and still develop a high register. However, your high register will be inconsistent, lack confidence, have intonation issues, feel like it needs special preparation or a different embouchure set (it doesn't) and cause your lips to tire very quickly.

Markedly improved endurance is a sure sign that you are on the right track. With good technique, you can regularly visit the high register over the course of two, three, or four hours without the lips appreciably tiring. They will start to feel raw from contact with the metal, but the center of your buzz shouldn't swell.

There are lots of tips and tricks, bodily things to focus on that will help, but these are learning aids that you will eventually forget or make unconscious once your high register is confident and easy. I've found it helpful to work on playing even easier and more effortlessly, with slower air, in the middle register. Can you make playing in the middle register feel just like talking? You were already well practiced in expelling air and articulating in a coordinated manner that was relaxed and easy long before you picked up a trombone. Hijack this highly developed neural circuitry for use on the trombone. Practice this and then use the same feeling as you slowly move to the high register. Having a good high register is the result of good general technique. Improve your middle register!

When getting high notes to speak is associated with struggle, its hard to believe that they can be so easy. Its helps to have a big reservoir of faith and patience. Breaking bad habits is hard and happens in degrees. Its two steps forward, one step back. Think in time frames of months and years, rather than days and weeks. As your high register improves, you might think your playing the note a partial or two below the one you want, and then smile, after a quick check with a lower octave, with the realization that playing that note never felt so easy. Don't be surprised or discouraged if it doesn't feel that easy the day after though, or even a minute later.

[aasavickas]

My favorite trick is to this exercise:


1. Take a deep breathe
2. Let out like 75% of it
3. then start high down slide, then gliss the partial up

The reason most folks can't play high is too much air.

Also, focus on pushing the air and pushing the lips into the piece whiile keeping the corners firm. I play from double pedals to super Bbs on all my horns.