TromboneChat

So it seems MuseScore is a more centralized and funded effort than before.

A lead figure has made this background video on the development of the substantially re-vamped MuseScore 4

...and by the way, trying to find designers, developers, and testers who all have experience with notation is like trying to find a dog with a degree in criminology.

Can't pay them in head scritches, either... AFAIK.

And here is the actual new release announcement video...

Thanks for that. I've switched from Finale to Musescore, and arrangements are easier and faster now. The new version looks very nice. Haven't used it yet, but the new year will bring a new set of writing for me.

Heads up. I've been using MuseScore 4 and while there are some terrific improvements, I've already run into one corrupted file. I am also struggling with the change to require articulations to be selected before note entry instead of post not entry as it was in previous versions.

--Andy in OKC

afugate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:18 pm I am also struggling with the change to require articulations to be selected before note entry instead of post not entry as it was in previous versions.

There's got to be a way to post-choose, or editing would be impossible.

But I have no idea how. I'll wait for 4.0.1 before I jump in.

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:26 pm There's got to be a way to post-choose, or editing would be impossible.

But I have no idea how. I'll wait for 4.0.1 before I jump in.

I thought so, too. I've been looking around and haven't come across a setting for that. If you find it please let me know.
--Andy in OKC

Still using Sibelius 6. Never upgraded. Never will, unless it stops working on windows. There have been no developments in music notation since ... 1960?

Don't know why these softwares keep needing updates, and they all seem to be taking away features as they "upgrade". Like the ability to change articulations. Or the ability to keep using the software without having to keep paying for it every year (in the case of Sibelius) even though none of the new features are good.

afugate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:28 pm

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:26 pm There's got to be a way to post-choose, or editing would be impossible.

But I have no idea how. I'll wait for 4.0.1 before I jump in.

I thought so, too. I've been looking around and haven't come across a setting for that. If you find it please let me know.
--Andy in OKC

Doesn't this page explain how to add articulations to selected notes, notes that already exist?

https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/articulations

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:42 pm Still using Sibelius 6. Never upgraded. Never will, unless it stops working on windows. There have been no developments in music notation since ... 1960?

Don't know why these softwares keep needing updates, and they all seem to be taking away features as they "upgrade". Like the ability to change articulations. Or the ability to keep using the software without having to keep paying for it every year (in the case of Sibelius) even though none of the new features are good.

There weren't any notation "programs" in 1960. There wasn't even a Personal Computer!

I've been through a pile of older (and now obsolete) notation programs. Somewhere on floppies I have a collection of stuff I can't even read any more. Remember SongWrite? Noteworthy Composer? Encore?

As to renting or mandatory update has been with us for a long time. I used to use a program called AutoCAD. AutoCAD used to sell an update every year for a pretty hefty price (in excess of $1000). And AutoCAD would automatically update any files it sees to the new version which is never compatible with the old one. Given I didn't use AutoCAD that much I tried to hold on to my aging copy as long as possible, sending copies to anybody who needed the drawing. I think Micro$oft got into the monthly fee for Office, which I feel is a form of extortion. I have some old copies of Office that I will use until they refuse to run, at which time I will be completely converted to Libre Office.

Given my infrequent need for notation software, MuseScore (currently 3) and Lily Pond have worked fine for me thus far. I don't need the fancy formatting capabilities of Sibelius or Finale.

I've been meaning to get into MuseScore for a year now. A very helpful TBC member converted all my .sib files to XML files last year!!!! But I just haven't had a chance to get in and play around. Sibelius 6 really was peak notation software IMO. Wish I could just get that interface w/o the licensing. Every time I went to go actually use the software it would tell me I had lost my license and I had to go through this crazy complex process to re-license it and then I ran out of time to actually do any work.

I had a cheap version of Sibelius but gave up after failing to ressurect the licence. Incidentally, the Sibelius development team went off to write Dorico (which looks pretty good) after being shut down by Avid.

MuseSoft meets most of my needs, although it does take time to learn how to cope with its quirks. I'm finding V4 fixes a few things and breaks a few things, but nothing spectacular to change my world.

I've done the Sibeleus -> XML -> MuseScore transition. It's not as effective as one would hope and requires a lot of cleanup.

That’s okay because my scores weren’t very good to begin with!

There's another side of Musescore, where people share stuff they've written or arranged, and you can build off of what others have done. As a person who does some of my own arranging, and uses the arrangements of others, it's a place to find stuff. Much of the time you have to fix the stuff you find, expand it, or combine it with something else, but if you've got some literacy with theory and form, you can make stuff work. From time to time I find stuff that's usable as-is. There have been a couple really nice trombone quartets or brass quintets that I've taken or adapted. They get by the copyright thing by charging a membership fee.

You'd think there'd be a great integration between the site and the software, but there isn't. To edit a tune, you have to download it and work on it locally, then re-upload it. I complain about cloud stuff a lot in my professional life, so you'd think I'd be happy about local software, but in this case, it would be easier if the software were cloud based, or at least connected to cloud data.

It actually wouldn't be an impossible undertaking to add git integration to something like that, but I feel like the learning curve would be hellish for non-programmers for that. Having something like GitHub for scores would be amazing though... where you could see the score in the browser based on the code and then highlight changes like git diffs and whatnot.

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:00 pm

afugate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:28 pm

I thought so, too. I've been looking around and haven't come across a setting for that. If you find it please let me know.
--Andy in OKC

Doesn't this page explain how to add articulations to selected notes, notes that already exist?

https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/articulations

My concern isn't for articulations added after note entry. The question is about entering articulations as you enter notes.

In previous version of MuseScore, I was accustomed to entering a note, adding the relevant articulation(s) and then proceeding to the next note. In MS4, I find that I must choose the articulation(s) and then enter the note. The advantage to the new process is that the articulation is sticky, meaning it will apply to multiple notes. The disadvantage is that articulations that change require an additional step after each note entered, i.e., select articulation, enter note, deselect articulation, select new articulation, enter note, deselect articulation, etc.

I primarily use MuseScore for notating big band music, where I most often am notating "doo daht" figures. of course, YMMV.

--Andy in OKC

BGuttman wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 6:42 am

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:42 pm Still using Sibelius 6. Never upgraded. Never will, unless it stops working on windows. There have been no developments in music notation since ... 1960?

Don't know why these softwares keep needing updates, and they all seem to be taking away features as they "upgrade". Like the ability to change articulations. Or the ability to keep using the software without having to keep paying for it every year (in the case of Sibelius) even though none of the new features are good.

There weren't any notation "programs" in 1960. There wasn't even a Personal Computer!

Ah but Bruce I was talking about notation in general, not notation programs . The last "new" notation innovation was probably the weird Luciano Berio Sequenza or John Cage type stuff, back in the flower days. And who really needs that in their notation software? Even though it's there in Sibelius 6.

They keep updating these programs but at the end of the day the program's purpose is to do something you have always been able to do with a pencil, just easier a d much cleaner. Sibelius 6 must've been a mistake. Unlimited instruments and staves, VST integration, complex meter and rhythms/tuplets, video, you name it. All with a forever license. Now you need the top tier payment plan just to come close to that.

MuseScore used to be open source, I thought. Now they want you to pay for it to get some essential features, right? It just doesn't make sense to me, for either brand. Sort of like a word processor. How can you possibly innovate in the world of word processors these days to make it seem like there is some new essential feature worth paying for?

My bottom line, I guess, is that I'm a cheap hoss who uses libre office and Reaper, and Sibelius 6. Every time a new notation thing comes out, I'm scratching my head. When Sibelius reminds me to upgrade, I'm like, are you kidding me?

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:08 pm MuseScore used to be open source, I thought. Now they want you to pay for it to get some essential features, right? It just doesn't make sense to me, for either brand. Sort of like a word processor. How can you possibly innovate in the world of word processors these days to make it seem like there is some new essential feature worth paying for?

MuseScore is still open source and completely free. It's available at www.musescore.org.

There is an online community sharing service branded as MuseScore. That's the for pay environment available at www.musescore.com.

--Andy in OKC

I don't use MuseScore (still on Sibelius 7 with NotePerformer - no subscription and it does everything I need it to), but I downloaded MuseScore 4 and the Muse Sounds to do a comparison between Muse Sounds and NotePerformer.



Muse Sounds has a lot going for it. Some it sounds AMAZING, especially the choir. But the dynamics are very unrefined, balance between instruments needs serious work (the horns dominate everything, while the trumpets and trombones might as well not be playing most of the time), and the engine has some unacceptable omissions. There's no euphonium sound, yet there's bass flute and cimbasso! It's obvious they had film scoring as their primary goal, but to include obscure instruments like those while omitting a core instrument in multiple popular ensemble types is a very odd decision.

Still, the MuseScore team seems to stand behind their product and work to improve it, so hopefully Muse Sounds will be refined and have its big gaps filled in time. It certainly has a lot of potential. As is though, NotePerformer is still king for notation software playback IMO.

Heads up. There is a known bug in MS4 that causes corruption when inserting additional measures. The fix is already on the development branch. I wound up going back to MS3 for now. The new keystrokes are a bit of a pain to relearn, but they aren't a deal-breaker. Unfortunately, this bug is for me. YMMV.

--Andy in OKC