TromboneChat

Ive seen alot of John packer trombones listed with Rath before the JP. However I know Rath as Micheal Rath, the UK based, expensive brand. Are JP and Rath related? Or do they share the name "Rath" in a model?

JP Rath are Chinese horns designed by the Rath shop. Pretty top tier in regard of Chinese instruments, not anything on the real deal Raths though.

Yup, as Burgerbob, said, you benefit from Rath design and John Packer does a pretty good job of inspecting. I had their 236 alto for awhile and was pleased. Very good fit and finish and play-ability. I imagine there is some financial link or co-ownership, but don't know for sure. If you want a Chinese price point, its a good way to go.

dcslideman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:22 pm Yup, as Burgerbob, said, you benefit from Rath design and John Packer does a pretty good job of inspecting. I had their 236 alto for awhile and was pleased. Very good fit and finish and play-ability. I imagine there is some financial link or co-ownership, but don't know for sure. If you want a Chinese price point, its a good way to go.

I 2nd that........ I've played on a JP Rath 400 (tenor) and found it played as well as my custom R4F at the time but costs a fraction of the price. The quality is very good for the price point.

It's a pretty similar deal to that which Steve Shires did with Eastman all thsoe years ago. Michael took time out to go to China and 'educate' them on quality control and how he would build instruments. John Packer markets them. Result is a much better quality of Chinese Instruments. I am not offering an opinion on Chinese instruments just sayig thats how it is. I have blown a chinese instrument or two at Mick Raths factory - they are good instruments. I would agree with Burgerbobs assesment of them and his comparison to Micks 'home made' instruments... Doug

BoomtownRath wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:01 amI 2nd that........ I've played on a JP Rath 400 (tenor) and found it played as well as my custom R4F at the time but costs a fraction of the price. The quality is very good for the price point.

The Rath 00-series (including the 400; just Rath, no JP) is somewhere in between the JP Raths and the full custom Raths. Still Chinese with Rath oversight, but the 00-series I've played are closer to the real deal.

Finetales wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:06 am

BoomtownRath wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:01 amI 2nd that........ I've played on a JP Rath 400 (tenor) and found it played as well as my custom R4F at the time but costs a fraction of the price. The quality is very good for the price point.

The Rath 00-series (including the 400; just Rath, no JP) is somewhere in between the JP Raths and the full custom Raths. Still Chinese with Rath oversight, but the 00-series I've played are closer to the real deal.

DougHulme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:50 am It's a pretty similar deal to that which Steve Shires did with Eastman all thsoe years ago. Michael took time out to go to China and 'educate' them on quality control and how he would build instruments. John Packer markets them. Result is a much better quality of Chinese Instruments. I am not offering an opinion on Chinese instruments just sayig thats how it is. I have blown a chinese instrument or two at Mick Raths factory - they are good instruments. I would agree with Burgerbobs assesment of them and his comparison to Micks 'home made' instruments... Doug

Yeah, I always thought the tiering was like this, comparing Rath (and JP) to Shires (and Eastman):

JP basic ~ Eastman basic (300-500 series)
JP Rath/Sterling/Smith-Watkins/Taylor ~ Eastman by Shires (that influence from the past seems to have continued to this day in the current Eastman 800 series instruments) and Shires Bravo, I suppose
Rath 00 series ≈ Shires Q series
Rath R series ≈ Shires custom

Of course, there are two very different design philosophies between the UK and US brands, so it's more quality, and general features and options being compared.

I recently play tested a John Packer (no Rath) 232 bass trombone and a JP Rath 333 bass trombone. The JPRath was noticeably superior to the 232 in build quality and playing characteristics. I actually think JP Rath can stand reasonably well against many stock Western trombones. Good response, nice sound, efficient blow, valve register was open enough. Bad ergonomics for my size hands, which could probably be fixed easily enough with a grip or a slight modification by your tech. The 232, on the other hand, felt and played like a budget horn.

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spencercarran wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 4:06 pm I recently play tested a John Packer (no Rath) 232 bass trombone and a JP Rath 333 bass trombone. The JPRath was noticeably superior to the 232 in build quality and playing characteristics. I actually think JP Rath can stand reasonably well against many stock Western trombones. Good response, nice sound, efficient blow, valve register was open enough. Bad ergonomics for my size hands, which could probably be fixed easily enough with a grip or a slight modification by your tech. The 232, on the other hand, felt and played like a budget horn.

The 232 is no slouch though...I would take one over a Xeno 830.

Finetales wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:40 am

spencercarran wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 4:06 pm I recently play tested a John Packer (no Rath) 232 bass trombone and a JP Rath 333 bass trombone. The JPRath was noticeably superior to the 232 in build quality and playing characteristics. I actually think JP Rath can stand reasonably well against many stock Western trombones. Good response, nice sound, efficient blow, valve register was open enough. Bad ergonomics for my size hands, which could probably be fixed easily enough with a grip or a slight modification by your tech. The 232, on the other hand, felt and played like a budget horn.

The 232 is no slouch though...I would take one over a Xeno 830.

I would agree that the 232 at least isn't bad, and in particular had a pretty good high register. Especially with the convertible tuning option and the favorable price, it would be worth consideration.

Though, if we're talking more affordable new bass trombones, the Eastman 848 is unbeatable IMO.

Kevbach33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:40 am Of course, there are two very different design philosophies between the UK and US brands, so it's more quality, and general features and options being compared.

That is correct. I play in a british style brass band but an american instrument suits me better, I get a better sound from a Bach or shires than a Rath and has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of Michael's instruments which is first class but the instrument design which doesn't quite suit me personally.