TromboneChat

I had a question regarding these particular instruments. I’m going to be in the market for a large bore tenor soon and was wondering if the open wrap models are more flexible in the lower register. I don’t have the opportunity to play test them, so I’m looking for a little input. Does the open wrap make much of a difference when playing lower notes with the trigger? Just curious as I’ve played mostly closed wrapped horns.

Also, how different are the 88s with yellow brass bell? I do enjoy my 8ht, just wondering how the yellow bell might effect that 88 sound.

Any difference between open/closed is going to be for unrelated reasons. Open wraps are great for not getting moisture trapped in them. Closed wraps are great for not bonking them on stuff behind your head. Both can be awful or fantastic.

I don't have any experience with the 88HTO, but I did buy an 88HYO last year. Compared to the rose brass bells that are more traditional to the 88H, I find this bell plays much brighter and projects just a little bit more. Matt K is also right that this is not a horn to bring down into the tight confines of a pit.

My 88HY came with a dual bore 0547-0562 slide and three leadpipes. I use it in a community band, where all the other trombones are playing small bore horns. It blend with them quite well.

Mike Innes did a YouTube video for Dawkes on them. I can hear the differences on my cell phone. They may be a bit suppressed.

Try all three before you buy one. Don't buy a new 88H blind, whatever you do. The Eastlake years are loong gone.

The answers you get here will be completely irrelevant to whatever example the dealer sends you, because quality is that variable. Matt is 100% right about the valve wrap making very little difference.

If you want to buy sight unseen for a Conn style instrument, and not pay a lot, get the Conn style Getzen.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:14 am Try all three before you buy one. Don't buy a new 88H blind, whatever you do. The Eastlake years are loong gone.

The answers you get here will be completely irrelevant to whatever example the dealer sends you, because quality is that variable. Matt is 100% right about the valve wrap making very little difference.

If you want to buy sight unseen for a Conn style instrument, and not pay a lot, get the Conn style Getzen.

Well, that’s discouraging concerning their quality. Honestly, I have absolutely no experience with Getzen. Seems like all we have in my neck of the woods is TSO, Bach, Holton and the occasional Conn. never seen anything in the flesh of Getzen but an old valve trombone. Definitely would consider it. Which model number might that be. I do see a 1047?

If buying untested, I can strongly recommend MW’s Conn like model, with the narrow gold brass slide. Amazing trombone.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:14 amIf you want to buy sight unseen for a Conn style instrument, and not pay a lot, get the Conn style Getzen.

Or the JP Rath, as Hornguys recommends. I had the chance to playtest a JP Rath bass recently and was surprised at how well and easily it played, would take it over most things out of Elkhart these days.

There is also the "New Vintage" Conn, which is like $200 more than the others, which has a MUCH BETTER wrap, which only sticks out a bit behind the main tuning slide, something I really wish more makers would do.

atopper333 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:19 am

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:14 am Try all three before you buy one. Don't buy a new 88H blind, whatever you do. The Eastlake years are loong gone.

The answers you get here will be completely irrelevant to whatever example the dealer sends you, because quality is that variable. Matt is 100% right about the valve wrap making very little difference.

If you want to buy sight unseen for a Conn style instrument, and not pay a lot, get the Conn style Getzen.

Well, that’s discouraging concerning their quality. Honestly, I have absolutely no experience with Getzen. Seems like all we have in my neck of the woods is TSO, Bach, Holton and the occasional Conn. never seen anything in the flesh of Getzen but an old valve trombone. Definitely would consider it. Which model number might that be. I do see a 1047?

The 1047FR. No it's not exactly like an 88H, but the slightly wider slide (not nearly as wide as Bach) is nice, and the bell did what you'd expect a red/rose bell to do.

It's tough though, especially if you haven't tried a good 88H yet. Hopefully you can test some horns out before pulling the trigger.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:33 pm

atopper333 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:19 am

Well, that’s discouraging concerning their quality. Honestly, I have absolutely no experience with Getzen. Seems like all we have in my neck of the woods is TSO, Bach, Holton and the occasional Conn. never seen anything in the flesh of Getzen but an old valve trombone. Definitely would consider it. Which model number might that be. I do see a 1047?

The 1047FR. No it's not exactly like an 88H, but the slightly wider slide (not nearly as wide as Bach) is nice, and the bell did what you'd expect a red/rose bell to do.

It's tough though, especially if you haven't tried a good 88H yet. Hopefully you can test some horns out before pulling the trigger.

I’ve been lucky with my 8ht. I seem to be a fan of the thinner bells for some reason. Really wish I was a bit closer to a good music store…nearest one that I know of is bout 5 hours away and the work schedule just won’t allow for it…

I’ve owned and played all these options and some more.

For me, very quickly:

Open wrap gives the instrument better balance and as a result slightly better response. It’s long, so a nightmare if you play in confined conditions. The trigger register is slightly easier to produce, especially in quieter dynamics, but the lack of resistance offers a different feel.


Yellow bell is brighter and can be zappier.

LT bell isn’t as warm sounding as a standard, and when loud is ALOT brighter. Lovely for orchestral stuff, quieter dynamics and offers an easy Repa once, but Pines of Rome or a brass band gig where you use eel volume and it’s very hard not to become too direct or at least loose quality in the sound. Elkhart’s are similar in this way I find.

Hope that’s of some use.

conn88Hagmann wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:30 am I’ve owned and played all these options and some more.

For me, very quickly:

Open wrap gives the instrument better balance and as a result slightly better response. It’s long, so a nightmare if you play in confined conditions. The trigger register is slightly easier to produce, especially in quieter dynamics, but the lack of resistance offers a different feel.


Yellow bell is brighter and can be zappier.

LT bell isn’t as warm sounding as a standard, and when loud is ALOT brighter. Lovely for orchestral stuff, quieter dynamics and offers an easy Repa once, but Pines of Rome or a brass band gig where you use eel volume and it’s very hard not to become too direct or at least loose quality in the sound. Elkhart’s are similar in this way I find.

Hope that’s of some use.

It definitely is a big help. I’ve been curious about the yellow bells.

I bought Getzen at a good price to give it a go. It is quite a beautiful trombone. Very well put together, the slide is just perfect, fit and finish, immaculate…I just can’t seem to get along with it, as much as I want to…it just doesn’t fit which is why I wished I could have tired before I bought. I’ve tired a few different mouthpieces, but on blind play tests with someone else listening, I’ve heard the same thing…the sound I’m getting from the Getzen doesn’t have the same color as the 8ht.

I’m starting to see that I get along much better with a lighter weight horn, don’t know why that is, but I can seem to color it much easier. I seemed to have a similar problem with my XO 1236…again, a beautiful instrument…just couldn’t get it where I wanted…

How do the yellow bells compare to the ht style bells?

If you’re talking about the Getzen Bousfield one, it’s a very easily slotting trombone, a definite development of the 88H. It doesn’t have a thin bell though as far as I’m aware, so if you like your LT feel, that comes from a reversal of the development back to a thinner bell like the Elkhart’s having changed to a thicker bell in the Artist Symph period, continued in the 1990’s / 2000’s trombones.

Remember that Bousfields Yamaha was effectively an 88H with a thick bell, so the Getzen is bound to be related nn someway. Although 30 years of experience is bound to have had an effect.

Maybe worth trying the new vintage 88. I haven’t tried one, but it has a valve very similar to the Getzen but harps back to the Elkhart and those thin bells.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:14 am Try all three before you buy one. Don't buy a new 88H blind, whatever you do. The Eastlake years are loong gone.

The answers you get here will be completely irrelevant to whatever example the dealer sends you, because quality is that variable. Matt is 100% right about the valve wrap making very little difference.

If you want to buy sight unseen for a Conn style instrument, and not pay a lot, get the Conn style Getzen.

What years were the Eastlake era for Conn trombones?

Translation of Trombo's question:

What years were the Eastlake era for Conn trombones?

These were relatively recent. When Conn-Selmer was formed all Conn trombone production went into the King factory in Eastlake Ohio. Later the Conn trombones were moved to the Bach plant in Elkhart, Indiana. Note that Conn originally was in Elkhart, Indiana but moved to Abilene TX in 1972. The prized Conn Elkhart trombones were from this older era. Unfortunately I can't give you exact years for Eastlake Conn, but it approximates the introduction of the Gen II version.

Thank you Bruce. I was in a hurry and forgot to turn on the translator.
I have the opportunity to buy one of the four Conns.
The 8h Conn artist symphony (I think it's Abiline) has serial number 37 ****** and costs $750.
88h has serial number 44 ****** - $1200.
88ht has serial number 43 ****** - $1850.
88ho - series and numbers of 6 digits I did not find (I think it's Gen II), miniball linkage - 1800$.
They sound about the same, all slides are good, the best one is 88ht.
Are these three 88hs Eastlake or not? What years are these? What would you choose? Your thoughts.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnSer ... Brass.html
Move to Eastlake was 1986, Elkhart in 2015
Any HT or HO is by definition a Gen II

The HT is a very nice horn. Seemed like the best years for Eastlake were 2000-2008, but I haven't tried many horns from the 90s.

You can use "The Horn Guys" page and the Way back Machine as a gauge for what Conn has been making -- they would be pretty brutal about batches of horns that they had to send back, for all makers. After the move back to Elkhart they were vocal about stopping orders until the quality cleaned up. Looks like they don't carry new Conns any more....

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:58 pm Looks like they don't carry new Conns any more....

Yup, I just talked to Steve. He doesn't like dealing with horns that obviously weren't QCed or playtested before sending.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:19 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:58 pm Looks like they don't carry new Conns any more....

Yup, I just talked to Steve. He doesn't like dealing with horns that obviously weren't QCed or playtested before sending.

That’s friggin’ horrible…definitely a turn off for buying a newer Conn…I’ll keep looking around for an older 88ht or something similar…

atopper333 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:58 pm

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:19 pm

Yup, I just talked to Steve. He doesn't like dealing with horns that obviously weren't QCed or playtested before sending.

That’s friggin’ horrible…definitely a turn off for buying a newer Conn…I’ll keep looking around for an older 88ht or something similar…

Steve was pretty fed up when i spoke to him last with Conn-Selmer as a whole over QC. It is sad considering i like Steve and give him business when i can because he's local and has such great stock. He's even not inclined special order from Conn-Selmer which says a lot.