King 3b .. Yes/No?

[bazman62]

Hi Guys,
There is a guy near me selling a King 3B, Silver, 1980-81 build.
It is all original, with the case that also has the serial number on it.
He is looking for about £1100 for it.
It is well worn, ie the lacquer but has no dents or major flaws as far as i can see.
Thoughts?
Cheers

[EriKon]

Price seems to be okay, but 80s King trombones are the worst decade imo. I have a silver King 3B from '85, which isn't a treat to play (High B flat not playable in 1st position because way too flat and other weird intonation things). You can get used to this instruments, but from my experience every other decade is better for King trombones than 80s. Bought mine used for 1000€ when I got my first professional small bore horn many years ago.

[EriKon]

And of course, best to try it out before you gonna buy it, especially if it's near you.

[HermanGerman]

Silver Sonic or silverplated?
Inners without wear? Slide perfect?
Still expensive if...

[MrHCinDE]

If it‘s silver plated, the slide would have to be very good to excellent for me personally to consider £1100 (€1275 or so) as good value for a horn like that from, I presume, a private seller. If you shop around a bit and keep an eye out on here and some other places, a better deal may come up.

I would be tempted to try it, since it’s local, but be prepared to walk away if the slide is at all slow or scratchy etc.

It doesn‘t harm to take a teacher or experienced trombonist friend with you to check out for other pitfalls of buying used.

For a silversonic, that would be a decent price, even if the slide needed a bit of a tune-up (but had no serious issues).

[EriKon]

Not an expert, but were Silversonics made in the 80s? I've heard of some early 80s Silversonics before, I think, but always thought they stopped those at some point in this decade?

[MrHCinDE]

Also not an expert, I had a late 70s one which would have been a steal for £1100. I wouldn‘t be shocked if they had some changes in lineup in the 80s so you could well be right.

[greenbean]

That sounds pretty pricy (unless it is a Silver Sonic). But I live in the US and you live in the Canary Islands. So, your other options would be to buy one from someone in Europe and ship it?...

[harrisonreed]

I thought the British pound was now at parity with the USD? Considering the inflation that we've been having, sounds like a deal to me

[HermanGerman]

A good 3B (not SS) is around 700 to 800 Euro in europe...a Silver Sonic 1200 - 1500 Euro..Avoid those UMI Kings from 1980 on...

[EriKon]

A good 3B (not SS) is around 700 to 800 Euro in europe...a Silver Sonic 1200 - 1500 Euro..Avoid those UMI Kings from 1980 on...

To be honest, I've never seen a Silver Sonic for 1200 - 1500 over here and I do check regularly (have seen one for 1,5 a few week ago, but most of them are at 2k and more). At least one in decent condition. There are 'normal' 3Bs for like 800 (I think I've seen 2 lately), but there are often also not in great condition. I would say those price expectations are both the exception and not the rule, especially if it's in good condition. I would still consider a 3B at 1000€ to be a good price if it's in great condition.

[bazman62]

Thanks for the info and advice. I'll give it a miss and keep looking, Cheers, Baz

[MrHCinDE]

To be honest, I've never seen a Silver Sonic for 1200 - 1500 over here and I do check regularly (have seen one for 1,5 a few week ago, but most of them are at 2k and more). At least one in decent condition. There are 'normal' 3Bs for like 800 (I think I've seen 2 lately), but there are often also not in great condition. I would say those price expectations are both the exception and not the rule, especially if it's in good condition. I would still consider a 3B at 1000€ to be a good price if it's in great condition.

My price expectations in Central Europe are in line with EriKon's.

You can get lucky, usually from a private seller who is not themselves a trombonist, but generally I would have said 800€-1000€ is not at all reasonable for a good 3B. I could think of one commercial seller in NL who regularly has horns in this range (possibly some documented/declared imperfections) and two in Germany who would usually be significantly more! In the UK, I've seen a few 3B/F for around £1000 recently, for example there's one at Duchy brass and one at Prozone at the moment.

HermanGerman, if you ever in a selling mood with your stated price expectations, please get in touch, I'll happily buy a good 3B from you for 700€. Even though I don't love the 3B SS, if you have one to sell for 1200€, I'll buy it, flip it and invite you to a couple of beers to celebrate.

[EriKon]

To be honest, I've never seen a Silver Sonic for 1200 - 1500 over here and I do check regularly (have seen one for 1,5 a few week ago, but most of them are at 2k and more). At least one in decent condition. There are 'normal' 3Bs for like 800 (I think I've seen 2 lately), but there are often also not in great condition. I would say those price expectations are both the exception and not the rule, especially if it's in good condition. I would still consider a 3B at 1000€ to be a good price if it's in great condition.

My price expectations in Central Europe are in line with EriKon's.

You can get lucky, usually from a private seller who is not themselves a trombonist, but generally I would have said 800€-1000€ is not at all reasonable for a good 3B. I could think of one commercial seller in NL who regularly has horns in this range (possibly some documented/declared imperfections) and two in Germany who would usually be significantly more! In the UK, I've seen a few 3B/F for around £1000 recently, for example there's one at Duchy brass and one at Prozone at the moment.

HermanGerman, if you ever in a selling mood with your stated price expectations, please get in touch, I'll happily buy a good 3B from you for 700€. Even though I don't love the 3B SS, if you have one to sell for 1200€, I'll buy it, flip it and invite you to a couple of beers to celebrate.

Haha, nice one, well reserved
I would love a 3B SS for 1200€ actually

Will sell my 80s silver plated 3B at some point I guess, because I have no need for it anymore and I want another back-up horn. For example a 3B Silversonic?

[HermanGerman]

If you compare the asking price with a realistic price for a 3B or SS you do something wrong.
I bought my last 4B SS for 750 Euro and my 2B and 3Bs (about 10) for 300 to 750 Euro.
There are a few seller here and in Germany who have astronomic asking prices but: nobody buys them...maybe some fools.. I am watching the King prices for 25 years....all you have to do is waiting. And to be faster than this trading guys who try to rise the prices.

[Macbone1]

Along the same lines as try it out first if you can, have you ever played a King 3B? They are a "different" blow from Conn, Bach, Shires and others and you may not even like an excellent 3B. Yes, stay away from the UMI era ones which have the laser-etched KING in the bell face. I had one - what a dog. Good luck in your search.

[HermanGerman]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144783270867 ... Sw5vpiINvf

Still tooo much!

[harrisonreed]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144783270867 ... Sw5vpiINvf

Still tooo much!

What world is this where people are getting free trombones? Sign me up!

[HermanGerman]

some would need free brain cells, too..sign up.

[imsevimse]

Kings are good. I played a 3B/F in high school before I switched to a Conn 88h when I studied at the music college. Had a Yamaha large bore that was handed to me when I played one year in the Army Corps Band. After music college I switched back to a straight King 3B again and did most of my freelance gigs in the 90-ies with that one. After my switch in carrer I bought a Bach 36BO and a King 2b+. The only reason I became collecting trombones was to replace the 2b+ because the slide became slower. I guess I could just have cleaned it but instead I bought another horn, a Kanstul 1555 but that 2b+ (after the clean) is still one of my best horns.

I collected most of my trombones 2014-2015 when the dollar was cheaper to us. The dollar was then 6,50 SKR and now it is close to 11 SKR. I always had to add 1000 SKR for shipping and after that 31% for all taxes, customs and money conversion fees. The resulting price was always high. I don't know if you in US do the same maths when you buy from Europe?

Anyway, i think we in Europe need to prepare to pay top dollar if we buy from US today. No way we will sell the horns we discuss in this thread with profit here after adding whatever high price for shipping plus those taxes, customs and money conversion fees. At the moment the best bargains can be found locally, from friends.

A King SS is also a great horn, in fact most of my horns are good even they who are old. Different, but good. Any horn needs to be adjusted too and it helps to dig in the drawer to find the right mouthpiece and then after the "sound" has been investigated be careful to choose the right context where it can be used. A tip: Most horns I bought off ebay just needed to be cleaned and to have a few bumps removed, then after a few drops of Yamaha lubricant any slide improved massively. Go for a King of any sort but if you are in Europe look for it among friends or at the local market, at the moment it is cheaper plus you can try before you buy.

/Tom

[MrHCinDE]

If you compare the asking price with a realistic price for a 3B or SS you do something wrong.
I bought my last 4B SS for 750 Euro and my 2B and 3Bs (about 10) for 300 to 750 Euro.
There are a few seller here and in Germany who have astronomic asking prices but: nobody buys them...maybe some fools.. I am watching the King prices for 25 years....all you have to do is waiting. And to be faster than this trading guys who try to rise the prices.

Well done HermanGerman, you‘re clearly a very savvy buyer. With the right knowledge, connections, patience, spare time and maybe some luck these things can be still be found. Kudos to you.

IMHO it‘s getting more difficult due to general price inflation (new horns have gone up very quickly, maybe good and in demand used ones are also tracking upwards a bit?) and as Tom said, the exchange rate.

If someone is buying because they want a particular horn in a reasonable timescale since they actually want to play it, it‘s a different story to those who can invest the time and effort seeking out a bargain without any direct ‚need‘ for another horn.

p.s. I also consider the prices of the couple of German sellers, we‘re probably thinking of the same ones, a bit high for me. On the other hand, it‘s always worth talking with them and asking what‘s possible on price, at least for the less exotic horns which seem pretty extreme. They offer trial and return which is the acid-test. The worth of a horn to a seller/buyer is exactly the price someone will pay for it and sell it for, no more or no less. If someone agrees a price, tries the horn for a month without returning it and keeps it, clearly the horn is worth that price to them. I wouldn‘t like to judge anyone for paying more than I personally would have done if they go through that process and are happy with the deal in the end and have an instrument they really like playing. It would be interesting to hear how many returns those sellers get, not too many I suppose…