Olds R20 Information

[CalebLangford]

I've seen an olds Bass Recording trombone (relatively new for an olds) pop up for $500NZD or $280USD. Would it be worth a purchase for a decent older bass or does the smaller valve make it impossible to play? I haven't seen anything about the recording single valve bass on here so I was just looking for some information.
Thanks

[Burgerbob]

Valve aside, the rest of the dimensions will determine whether you would want to use it as a bass. The tuning slide to me looks pretty small, even compared to similar vintage single bass trombones.

[elmsandr]

No catalogs handy, but aren’t these like ~525 or ~530”? I seem to remember these being small shank medium large bore horns. Fun for pit work, but not a bass.

Cheers,
Andy

[CalebLangford]

I'm not sure on the specifics for this sadly. So more of a Bb/F tenor as opposed to a bass?

[Burgerbob]

I'm not sure on the specifics for this sadly. So more of a Bb/F tenor as opposed to a bass?

More tweener than anything. Horns in this era like the King Symphony at .536 are definitely basses, but not in a modern way. They don't really function as large tenors either.

[hyperbolica]

Yeah, these aren't basses. I think they're just Recording specs (495/510 bore) with a valve and a big 8.5" bell. I think the main tuning slide is bigger than the standard Recording, but it's not a bass or even a large tenor. Nice horns, maybe useful on 3rd parts, but not a bass the way we think of basses today. The Olds single and double valve basses were S- and P- model numbers like S-20, S-22, S-24g, P-24g

http://www.itsabear.com/horns/horns.html

[JohnL]

That's an R-20; Olds called it the "Recording Bass Trombone" (back then anything with an f-attachment was referred to as a "bass trombone"). As Hyperbolica said, it's .495"/.510" with an 8.5" bell. The valve is .515". Nice horn, but definitely not a bass trombone.

[CalebLangford]

How does it compare to a more modern tenor?

[Burgerbob]

How does it compare to a more modern tenor?

Kind of not at all, they are pretty different from anything modern even if some specs are the same.

[hyperbolica]

How does it compare to a more modern tenor?

Recordings in general are a bit dark and smoky compared to something like a 6h. The Recording is kind of heavy, moreso with the valve. It's going to articulate quickly like a 6h because of the top slide, but have kind of a dark weight to it because of the combination of the reddish bell material, nickel silver parts, and the overall weight. The closest thing to compare it to directly would be an 88h, but then again, not really. I've never played one with a valve, but I own a straight Recording.

Some of the bigger Olds like the Opera have a really great sound. Olds with some people have kind of an unfortunate stigma. They don't fit a lot of the modern pidgeon holes, but they are still fantastic instruments. Well constructed, often beautiful, fantastic sound.

[Matt K]

That seems like it would be pretty comparable to a YSL356, to be honest. ANd that makes sense because the specs on paper are somewhat similar.

[hyperbolica]

I've got a Recording, a 32h and a ysl455g with roughly similar specs on paper. The Recording is much darker and heavier than the other two, even though it's smaller bore. .

[Posaunus]

How does it compare to a more modern tenor?

The Olds R-20 Recording is sort of comparable in size (0.495"/0.510" bore, 8½" bell) to a King 3BF (0.508" bore, 8" bell). But the sound is rather different from the 3B or other "modern" tenors. The Recording sounds better to me with a slightly larger mouthpiece than the original Olds 3 or Olds 1, but its receiver is happier with an Olds piece (or a Doug Elliott Olds shank). Same for its non-F-attachment sibling, the R-15 Recording.

In any case, I think the R-20 is a fine tenor trombone, quite versatile, with the advantage of an F-attachment and decent valve. Very robust. But the "duo-octagonal" slide must be in good condition. (Some are not - they haven't been made since 1979.) I'm a fan.

[CalebLangford]

It seems to be in great condition and is very cheap so might be worth the buy

[imsevimse]

My straight Recording plays better than the my Recording with valve. The straight one plays more open. Maybe an Olds mouthpiece would make a change. As someone said the one with valve could fit 3:rd part in a big band and it might fit 4:th in early big band four-part rep where the 4:th part looks like a tenor part. I would not use it on 4:th in the bands where I play bass at the moment.

/Tom

[Posaunus]

Toward the end of the manufacturing life of the Recording trombones (after ~1970? until 1979) Olds changed their receiver / leadpipe so they accepted standard small-shank mouthpieces. A great improvement; long overdue!

I've just had Doug Elliott make me a special D3* Shank with an Olds taper for my 1968 R15 Recording - the Olds mouthpieces just don't work as well for me as Doug's. Can't wait to try it out!

[CalebLangford]

Was the R20 one of the higher end models at the time?

[Posaunus]

Was the R20 one of the higher end models at the time?

The R15 (straight tenor) and R20 (tenor with F-attachment) Recording trombones are the best Olds tenor trombones that I have played. Just a little bigger (0.495"/0.510") bore than the other Olds tenors. Listed in their late Los Angeles Olds catalog as top of the trombone line. List price for the R20 in the early 1970s was $350 with case.

[JohnL]

Was the R20 one of the higher end models at the time?

When they were introduced, the Recording joined the Super at the top of the Olds line. In the classic Fullerton small-bore lineup, it was (bottom to top) Ambassador, Special, Studio, Super, Recording.

[CalebLangford]

The serial seems to be from around 1974-5. So I imagine this had the proper small shank mouthpieces but was the quality worse in later years?

[JohnL]

There’s no “bad” era for Olds. My daily players are Olds from the late years and they’re as well put together as the pre-WW2 examples in my collection.

What makes the Pre-WW2 instruments interesting to me is that there’s so many variations, some of which were produced in very small quantities and/or have unique and/or innovative features.

[Posaunus]

The serial seems to be from around 1974-5. So I imagine this had the proper small shank mouthpieces but was the quality worse in later years?

Caleb,

You're a fortunate guy. I have a 1976 R20 Recording; its manufacturing quality is superb and its playability excellent. Good valve. Standard small-shank mouthpiece. [I have a Yamaha 51C4 in its case right now for what it’s worth, but this trombone is a chameleon, and will accommodate anything from a 12C to a 6½AL.] Only downside for my R20 - the original duo-octagonal upper inner slide tube was replaced with a cylindrical tube, thus no longer to factory specs. So if your is all-original, it should be even better. Olds quality was as good as ever in the early-to-mid 1970s.

Good luck!

[CalebLangford]

Hopefully I can win it, what would be the most to pay for something like this?

[Posaunus]

If you can purchase this for less than 600NZD (~350USD), you've got a very good deal!

Just remember that it's a (rather versatile) tenor trombone, not a bass.

[CalebLangford]

I'm not a bass player anyway so that's perfect