TromboneChat

Per popular demand:

The "medium" bore slides all seem to be compatible. I've found bells/slides from these "medium" bore slides to be compatible, and essentially the same length:

356(G)
445
446
630
645
646

Interestingly, the YSL548 bell section accepts the aforementioned small slides, and the lock ring is the same, but the tenon is a little too short so unless you get it EXACTLY right, it's wonky. But if you do get a tight fit, it actually works. I had a 356 slide on my 548 bell for awhile and it worked really well.

My understanding that I'd hope someone can corroborate is that all large bore tenons are the same as my 548 but I don't know that for sure.

Additionally, some basses... maybe the 622? has a Bach receiver. Jeff Cortazzo borrowed my bell section when his Mt. Vernon bell was in the shop about 10 year ago from a... airline incident. And he just put his Shires slide on it and it fit on about the same way a Shires slide fits in a Bach slide. Not great but not bad either.

My 643 and 548 are slides are interchangeable with the opposite bell sections. Interesting fact, the outer slides and the tuning slides are also interchangeable.

Yamaha seems to have bascially made like, one tuning slide for like... all of their medium/large models up to like, the 300 series. Maybe they have a different taper internally? Not sure, but the tuning slides on all of the models I mentioned are totally swappable. Also, you can get the tuning slide fairly inexpensively from them.

You can add the 640 to the list of compatible .525 Yamaha slides.

And the tuning slide is compatible between all 600 series Yamahas, .525 and .547. I have used the tuning slide from my .630 (with its cross brace and weight) on both my 620 and 640, respectively. (experimenting).

My 612Rii slide is a good fit on my Bach 42 bell. It’s a bit shorter than a Bach slide but perfectly usable after getting used to it for a few minutes.

Similarly my Bach 42 and Edwards large-bore slides fit well on the 612rii. The Bach slide with the 612Rii bell is just about short enough to be playable at A=442Hz for me, the Edwards slide is in a more comfortable tuning range.

I think I remember someone on here saying not all 612 slides are alike so YMMV.

Matt K wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:45 pm Per popular demand:

The "medium" bore slides all seem to be compatible. I've found bells/slides from these "medium" bore slides to be compatible, and essentially the same length:

356(G)
445
446
630
645
646

I think we can add the oddball 350c and non-US 455, 456 to this list. But the 350c is not the same length as the others.

Also, the 353OR to the medium bore list. Just like the 455G except with a rose brass bell instead of gold brass. There is also a 353, no letter suffix, that is a straight .500”, similar to the 354.

The YBL 321 bass slide I have has fitted all the bass models I have ever tried it on, which is quite a few so I dont think they have changed the bell to slide fittings since they started productiion?

Anyone know if Conn 18H (Corprion) will fit the receiver on a Yamaha 354/M1?

Anyone know if the 352/354 bells are compatible with the .525 slides? Specifically the 455G.

No, the 352/354 is much smaller on both the tenon itself and the threads. The medium bore ones are actually very similar to the largebore tenons such that you can actually get the medium bore to fit in a large bore and the threads will engage... but it'll be a little loose.

However, the part to adapt the receiver is very inexpensive.

DougHulme wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:34 am The YBL 321 bass slide I have has fitted all the bass models I have ever tried it on, which is quite a few so I dont think they have changed the bell to slide fittings since they started productiion?

The basses have many different tenons. The 830 has a bach/edwards compatible slide, to a degree, wheras my 613 is totally different.

I bow to your supreior knowledge Aiden. Its why I put a ? after my statement. Although like I say I have put my 321 slide on about 4 different models and they fitted but I cant say which ones they were now so I am probably not much use in clarifying my own statement... Doug

Thanks Matt. Useful to know.

I’ve got a medium bore Yamaha slide at the moment I’m trying to figure out what to do with if you want to send me a pm/email I might be able to work something out depending on what you’re trying to achieve

No real plans at the moment - I found a 354 advertised with a trashed slide and thought that bell on my 455 slide might be an interesting combo.

While I'm on the subject, I've found the 455G to be a very likeable horn. It's too front heavy (as all larger straight horns seem to be) and I find it a bit stuffy in the low register, but I think that's more of a mouthpiece issue.

MrHCinDE wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:36 pm My 612Rii slide is a good fit on my Bach 42 bell. It’s a bit shorter than a Bach slide but perfectly usable after getting used to it for a few minutes.

Similarly my Bach 42 and Edwards large-bore slides fit well on the 612rii. The Bach slide with the 612Rii bell is just about short enough to be playable at A=442Hz for me, the Edwards slide is in a more comfortable tuning range.

I think I remember someone on here saying not all 612 slides are alike so YMMV.

My 612 fit my Courtois 410 slide (.547) successfuly, and my Bach 50 LW slide too.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:41 am

DougHulme wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:34 am The YBL 321 bass slide I have has fitted all the bass models I have ever tried it on, which is quite a few so I dont think they have changed the bell to slide fittings since they started productiion?

The basses have many different tenons. The 830 has a bach/edwards compatible slide, to a degree, wheras my 613 is totally different.

Hello!

You mean the YBL-830 right?

Did you try putting in a Bach or Edwards slide and did it fit? how about tuning? Tell me a little, I'm interested in this mix of brands

Thanks!

AlexBassBone wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:13 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:41 am

The basses have many different tenons. The 830 has a bach/edwards compatible slide, to a degree, wheras my 613 is totally different.

Hello!

You mean the YBL-830 right?

Did you try putting in a Bach or Edwards slide and did it fit? how about tuning? Tell me a little, I'm interested in this mix of brands

Thanks!

Yes, it works. I haven't tried it in a very long time- I feel like perhaps the threads were different and I couldn't use the Edwards dual bore I wanted to try last time.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:18 am

AlexBassBone wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:13 am

Hello!

You mean the YBL-830 right?

Did you try putting in a Bach or Edwards slide and did it fit? how about tuning? Tell me a little, I'm interested in this mix of brands

Thanks!

Yes, it works. I haven't tried it in a very long time- I feel like perhaps the threads were different and I couldn't use the Edwards dual bore I wanted to try last time.

OK, I see, then the dual bore doesn't work, of course, you must have the larger adapter.

I'll try non dual bore slides, see if I like the combination.

Thanks!

soseggnchips wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:51 am No real plans at the moment - I found a 354 advertised with a trashed slide and thought that bell on my 455 slide might be an interesting combo.

While I'm on the subject, I've found the 455G to be a very likeable horn. It's too front heavy (as all larger straight horns seem to be) and I find it a bit stuffy in the low register, but I think that's more of a mouthpiece issue.

Yeah, my 455g really grew on me quickly despite the front heaviness. I don't have low range issues with it. Interestingly, it seems to like smaller mouthpieces. I'm half tempted to get a 456 to see if that's better balanced. That could really be a horn that can do anything. I've talked some smack about Yamaha in the past, but this horn makes me want to take some of it back...

AlexBassBone wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:26 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:18 am

Yes, it works. I haven't tried it in a very long time- I feel like perhaps the threads were different and I couldn't use the Edwards dual bore I wanted to try last time.

OK, I see, then the dual bore doesn't work, of course, you must have the larger adapter.

I'll try non dual bore slides, see if I like the combination.

Thanks!

Dual bores have the same size tenon (outer diameter, anyway) than the other slides. The threads will not fit Edwards, and therefore won't fit Bach. I remember a Shires slide fitting a few years ago.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:27 am

soseggnchips wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:51 am No real plans at the moment - I found a 354 advertised with a trashed slide and thought that bell on my 455 slide might be an interesting combo.

While I'm on the subject, I've found the 455G to be a very likeable horn. It's too front heavy (as all larger straight horns seem to be) and I find it a bit stuffy in the low register, but I think that's more of a mouthpiece issue.

Yeah, my 455g really grew on me quickly despite the front heaviness. I don't have low range issues with it. Interestingly, it seems to like smaller mouthpieces. I'm half tempted to get a 456 to see if that's better balanced. That could really be a horn that can do anything. I've talked some smack about Yamaha in the past, but this horn makes me want to take some of it back...

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that the current 4xx series are just a rebadge of the mid-90s 6xx professional horns.

I've been using mine on 3rd in one specific big band as an experiment, and it's definitely been interesting. The low register stuffiness did turn out to be a mouthpiece issue. I switched from a Bach 4C to a DE XT/C+ setup and it's vastly better down low, on this and every other instrument.

I still don't know if I'll keep the 445 long term, but that's really just because I want an F-attachment for this part. If a nice 446 or 646 were to come along it'd be hard to say no.

soseggnchips wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:07 pm I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that the current 4xx series are just a rebadge of the mid-90s 6xx professional horns.

If you're talking about the 455/456, I believe those are non-US versions of the 356

soseggnchips wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:07 pmI've been using mine on 3rd in one specific big band as an experiment, and it's definitely been interesting. The low register stuffiness did turn out to be a mouthpiece issue. I switched from a Bach 4C to a DE XT/C+ setup and it's vastly better down low, on this and every other instrument.

Yeah, that sounds about right. I'm using the xt104d and c.

soseggnchips wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:07 pmI still don't know if I'll keep the 445 long term, but that's really just because I want an F-attachment for this part. If a nice 446 or 646 were to come along it'd be hard to say no.

455 or 445?

Mine's a 445G, the fairly common .525 intermediate model - sorry, I've just noticed I've typo'd throughout my original post.

I've never even heard of the 455. It looks like it's a JDM straight tenor version of the 356 (which we *do* get in Europe). Confusingly, it turns out there's also a 456A, which is Australian market-only, and seems to be a 445 slide (single-bore .525) on a 3/456 bell (8" instead of 8.5").

Actually, this is something I find mildly infuriating about Yamaha: they make a million different models and it seems to be completely arbitrary which are available in a given market. I wish they'd at least publish a single list of everything they make. That and serial numbers.

soseggnchips wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:07 pm ...
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that the current 4xx series are just a rebadge of the mid-90s 6xx professional horns.
...

This is something that a longtime forum member has been saying for years. Ii is WRONG. Totally dead wrong. They share few, if any, parts. Very much different horns.

soseggnchips wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:33 pm Mine's a 445G, the fairly common .525 intermediate model - sorry, I've just noticed I've typo'd throughout my original post.

I've never even heard of the 455. It looks like it's a JDM straight tenor version of the 356 (which we *do* get in Europe). Confusingly, it turns out there's also a 456A, which is Australian market-only, and seems to be a 445 slide (single-bore .525) on a 3/456 bell (8" instead of 8.5").

Actually, this is something I find mildly infuriating about Yamaha: they make a million different models and it seems to be completely arbitrary which are available in a given market. I wish they'd at least publish a single list of everything they make. That and serial numbers.

I wrote to Yamaha about dating my YSL-684G. Here’s their response.

Good morning,
I have a Yamaha YSL-684G trombone, and the serial number is 201305. Could you tell me the year it was made?
Thank you in advance.
Jerry Walker

Hi Jerry,

Thank you for reaching out to Yamaha. Unfortunately, that serial number is not coming up in our system. There are two likely reasons:

1. The instrument is older than our current database which starts in 1990. This particular model began distribution in 1987, so it is likely that it was pre-1989. However, because we do not have the data on these instruments, we cannot be any more specific than that.
2. The instrument is from outside the US market. The support email that you found is only for the USA market and unfortunately, we don't have serial number data for other countries.

Thank you again for reaching out and I'm sorry that we couldn't be of more help.

Best regards,
Jojo Pak
Winds & Strings Marketing
Yamaha Corporation of America

Their email address:
[email protected]

Does anyone happen to know if the 651 slide is compatible with Olds small bore horns, both in tenon and in length?

Hello all, not sure if this warrants a new thread or not.
I have a 682b (The bousfield valved open wrap one). I'm wondering if the yamaha medium bore slides may fit it's reciever. Specifically from say a 640/620.

And if anyone has actually done similar with the Yamaha instruments, and what results they got.

I've fouund myself playing first for eveything, and I've been considering a change to .525 or maybe even .508 instrument to help my high register consistency. A medium slide on the existing bell might be a good compromise.

Technically you should be able to fit and it will “work” but it’s obviously a little too small to be something I’d want to use full time. You may want to consider picking up a large bore slide and adding a 525 upper. I may have something sitting around from a similar project I was thinking of doing if you want to contact me

Has anyone here tried your medium bore slides with either a Conn 78 or 79H? I have a spare 79H bell, and maybe this is a less expensive way to get the horn out playing again.

A long shot here, does anybody know if a 651 and 691 are compatible to swap bells/slides?

Interesting, I was just wondering about compatibility between my 891z and a 691.

Everything here suggests they would be the same, but has anyone tried swapping the .508 slides/bells?

They should be.

Are the 691z and 697z interchangeable?
Someone mentioned in the past that a 354 bell fit on the 697z.

I think I killed this thread with my lame small bore yammy question. Lol

Sniffynose wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:18 am I think I killed this thread with my lame small bore yammy question. Lol

They are interchangeable. Or at least, the 891 and 897 slides are interchangeable. I think they all have the same receiver.

For the 891 and 897, Yamaha also makes a .500 bore slide that will fit either.


Of all the combinations, the vanilla 891z is the best in my opinion.

Does anyone know if medium bore slides fit small bore bell sections?

No, or at least the 630, 645, 646, 356, and 446 all have the same receiver which is the similar tenon but the same locking nut as the large bores. Or at least it is as far as I can tell. I’ve had one of everyone of those slides and they all fit on a 548 bell section, albeit loosely.

Matt K wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 3:22 pm No, or at least the 630, 645, 646, 356, and 446 all have the same receiver which is the similar tenon but the same locking nut as the large bores. Or at least it is as far as I can tell. I’ve had one of everyone of those slides and they all fit on a 548 bell section, albeit loosely.

Yes, that's my experience as well, the slide will thread on my Xeno but the tenon isn't quite there.

If someone watching this thread that owns a small bore Yamaha would measure the diameter of the tenon where the threads start and where the tenon ends it'll probably answer my question

For what it's worth, if you wanted th eparts, Yamaha stuff is pretty cheap and easy to get usually. You can probalby get a 446 slide receiver and have it put on your small bore bell section, and have a meidum bore tenon put on the small slide too. That's what I'm doing with my King equipment. Everything is going to have the 3B+ receiver except maybe my most recent project b/c the rotor I have is .493. But if I can make it work I will

The Yamaha ybl-620 (so, the bass trombone) also fits Bach 42 or 50 bells/slides. Not sure about the tuning.

Hello, from a high school student in Japan.
I have a YSL-456G and a YSL-3530R (i.e. a modern 455G), both medium bore and interchangeable.
These are both dual bore trombones, but I am wondering if a medium bore slide that is not so can also be used with the 456G.
The reverse is the same and I would like to know which models are compatible with the 456G slide.

My English may be strange because I am not good at English and I used a translator.

Does anybody know if YSL-448 GE II can be used with any .525 or .525/547 slide?

Similar question:
If YSL-446 GE can be used with any .525/547 or .547 slide?

Does anybody know if YSL-448 GE II can be used with any .525 or .525/547 slide?

Similar question:
If YSL-446 GE can be used with any .525/547 or .547 slide?

No, the "large bore" Yamaha receiver is different than the medium bore receiver. Well, technically the medium bore slide will fit in the large bore and the threads will secure, but the connection will be super loose. Easiest course of action would be to replace both the slide receiver (bell side) and slide tenon (slide side) on one of the sets to match the other. Yamaha parts are typically pretty inexpensive and readily available, a good tech would make short work of such a project.

I'm not aware of any stock 525/547 Yamaha slides fwiw, but another option if that's what you desire would be to replace the upper slide with a 525 on the 547 slide and that would at least accomplish getting the 525/547 working on a large bore bell section and I suspect would be cheaper than the suggestion I made above.

Tatsu wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 9:31 pm Hello, from a high school student in Japan.
I have a YSL-456G and a YSL-3530R (i.e. a modern 455G), both medium bore and interchangeable.
These are both dual bore trombones, but I am wondering if a medium bore slide that is not so can also be used with the 456G.
The reverse is the same and I would like to know which models are compatible with the 456G slide.

My English may be strange because I am not good at English and I used a translator.

There are actually a few Japanese speakers here, so if something isn't translating right, you may consider posting the Japanese text in parallel with your translated text and someone might be able to help.

To the best of my knowledge, all of the Yamaha medium bore slides will mate with all of the medium bore bell sections. When I say "medium" bore, I mean all Yamaha 500/525 and 525 slides that I have tried (including 356, 446, 630, 645, and 646) have mated and, as important, had an acceptably similar length in both the slide in bell section.

Can confirm, owning both a 456G and 446, they do indeed interchange.

Thanks for the answers everyone!
I then also purchased a 455G and was able to pursue the setting by replacing the slide and main tuning tube. The replacement of the slide and, of course, the main tuning tube was more effective than expected.â