Possibilities for Tonal Energy app

[johntarr]

Hello all,

After reading the pedagogy section of the ITJ, I began searching for more information on the Tonal Energy (TE) app for new ways to use the app. I hadn’t realized that there are play-along exercises and that one can even create their own tracks. There seems to be some potential using those for myself and my students.

Do any of you out there use TE (or another) for more than just tuning and metronome? Any ideas or references would be greatly appreciated.

John

[Burgerbob]

I actually try not to use app tuners (though I have Tonal Energy and Tunable). Having the phone there is usually more of a distraction than a help, even with all the fancy stuff you can do with them.

[johntarr]

I actually try not to use app tuners (though I have Tonal Energy and Tunable). Having the phone there is usually more of a distraction than a help, even with all the fancy stuff you can do with them.

I generally agree but I’ve found the drones useful. Being able to create a “moving drone” could be, I believe, also useful.

[harrisonreed]

I don't know why but the people with whatever app it is that makes a smiling face when you tune with it seem to always have it on their stand, even during rehearsals, and are wildly out of tune. If you take it from them and have them play a bit, the face turns purple and confused for any note they hold out.

Visual cues to fix aural problems seem to be the wrong way to go. The pain box from Dune would be better.

This analysis mode seems to be the best use for it, especially if you can't see it while you're playing with others. You don't get immediate feedback, but an accurate picture of what you're doing for an entire phrase:

Screenshot_20220723-170959.png

[Kdanielsen]

My favorite feature of the TE app is the drone that listens to you and plays whatever note you are playing but it’s in tune. Very useful.

[johntarr]

Visual cues to fix aural problems seem to be the wrong way to go. The pain box from Dune would be better.

Agreed! What I’m interested in is the part that plays sounds in tempo. You can have it play any of many different kinds of scales, chords and exercises and set the tempo. There’s also a way to program and I’m wondering if it would be possible to program, for example, harmonic function and play a scale, while recording so that you could go back and listen to how in tune the scale was. My hunch is that there might be more creative uses (don’t involve smiley faces and checking my phone) that I’m not able to dream up, hence the query.

[robcat2075]

My favorite feature of the TE app is the drone that listens to you and plays whatever note you are playing but it’s in tune. Very useful.

That sounds interesting!

Something I have grown to appreciate about the cello is the open strings that resonate when you play an octave or a fifth or a unison in tune with one.

And beyond that, almost every fingered note can be checked for a consonant interval against a neighboring open string.

If I could make a magic box for beginning trombone players it would have four foot buttons that would each play one note...

Bb at the top of the staff, because that is a tuning note
F a fourth below, so that they begin to hear that not all first position notes are the same position
C a fourth below, so they can have a ready reference for a real 6th position
G at the bottom of the staff, for likewise finding 4th position Gs

These tones would also audibly sound if a sympathetic note were played in tune.

It's a series of fourths, much like violins and cello have fifths

Of course the student would at first just use the pedals to compare unisons and octaves, but with coaching from the teacher they can learn to tune fifths and thirds and sixths... anything.

The box provides something more immediately accessible and spontaneous than a tone from an app or a CD that must be manually set, and would be more likely to be used.

[Kdanielsen]

My favorite feature of the TE app is the drone that listens to you and plays whatever note you are playing but it’s in tune. Very useful.

That sounds interesting!

Something I have grown to appreciate about the cello is the open strings that resonate when you play an octave or a fifth or a unison in tune with one.

And beyond that, almost every fingered note can be checked for a consonant interval against a neighboring open string.

If I could make a magic box for beginning trombone players it would have four foot buttons that would each play one note...

Bb at the top of the staff, because that is a tuning note
F a fourth below, so that they begin to hear that not all first position notes are the same position
C a fourth below, so they can have a ready reference for a real 6th position
G at the bottom of the staff, for likewise finding 4th position Gs

These tones would also audibly sound if a sympathetic note were played in tune.

It's a series of fourths, much like violins and cello have fifths

Of course the student would at first just use the pedals to compare unisons and octaves, but with coaching from the teacher they can learn to tune fifths and thirds and sixths... anything.

The box provides something more immediately accessible and spontaneous than a tone from an app or a CD that must be manually set, and would be more likely to be used.

Not everyone has one, but you could just tape down those keys on a piano. They will ring when you play them.

I use the TE app a lot. I use the drones, I use the “playback” drone (described above), and I just leave it on on my stand sometimes (horrors! shame on me…).

I think all this stuff taken together, including using your eyes, is valuable. We use our eyes for everything. They are so connected to the way that we interact with the world. Why ignore that? Use it all!

[robcat2075]

Not everyone has one, but you could just tape down those keys on a piano. They will ring when you play them.

One time i sneezed so hard all four strings on my cello were ringing.

But part of the magic of my magic box is that you won't have to carry a tuned, acoustic piano with you everywhere you practice.

[johntarr]

I’ve been having the TE app play a scale, using the piano sound at a given tempo, while playing along with the app. Then I record myself and listen back to hear (and see) how in tune, and in time I played. This has been revealing and can be done with many scales, arpeggios and even the fundamentals for tenor and alto trombones.

[johntarr]

Bb at the top of the staff, because that is a tuning note
F a fourth below, so that they begin to hear that not all first position notes are the same position
C a fourth below, so they can have a ready reference for a real 6th position
G at the bottom of the staff, for likewise finding 4th position Gs

These tones would also audibly sound if a sympathetic note were played in tune.

There is an app that does something like this, called Samvada.

It has 13 “strings” and you can set the pitch for each one and even raise and lower them by cents. It plays the note if you touch the string and/or it resonates with the note when you play.

I’ll try your idea with the open strings.

[robcat2075]

Bb at the top of the staff, because that is a tuning note
F a fourth below, so that they begin to hear that not all first position notes are the same position
C a fourth below, so they can have a ready reference for a real 6th position
G at the bottom of the staff, for likewise finding 4th position Gs

These tones would also audibly sound if a sympathetic note were played in tune.

There is an app that does something like this, called Samvada.

It has 13 “strings” and you can set the pitch for each one and even raise and lower them by cents. It plays the note if you touch the string and/or it resonates with the note when you play.

I’ll try your idea with the open strings.

That sound like an essential element.

Next you need a foot pedal with four buttons to trigger the notes. You want these notes to be spontaneously accessible while you are playing and not have to stop and shift the horn over to one hand to noodle with the app to get one to play.

The opportunity to instantly bow a fingered note against an open string is what makes this so useful on the cello.

[robcat2075]

I’ll try your idea with the open strings.

Next you need a foot pedal with four buttons to trigger the notes.

One of the big "a-ha" moments on the cello for me was noticing that if I fingered an E on the D string and played it as a perfect fourth against the open A above it, it could not be in quite the same place as when i played the E as a major sixth against the open G below it.

If i tuned it carefully against the reference notes, it couldn't be in the same place! A slight difference, but noticeable in a quick A/B comparison.

In all my years of trombone playing I never had the chance to calmly test something like that nor did any teacher talk of such a thing.

And who would play the other notes? Who is to say they would be accurately in tune? If I had to take my hand off the slide to call up each tuner drone, I'd never have caught that difference or been sure of it.

But on a cello those notes are automatically available, ready to be checked.

the Bb-F-C-G notes offer similar opportunities to test perfect intervals against major/minor ones, for example the D you play a major sixth above the F tuning note will be slightly lower than when it is against the G tuning note

[StevenHolloway]

I record myself and listen back at half speed.

[HTXPosaune]

I like practicing along with the sawtooth wave drone option - sawtooth waves are constructed using the fundamental and each of the harmonics whereas sine waves are only fundamental and square waves are fundamental + odd harmonics.