TromboneChat

I am thinking of upgrading trombones and would like to know what you play on and why you do

Thanks

Olds: beautiful sound.
Holton: Versatile.
Conn: Punchy and easy to blow.

Conn 88HTCL =  Beatiful big sound, easy to color the tone. Very open.

Bach 42 closed wrap =  stuffy, dull sound, the whole instrument vibrates. I think there is a sock stuck in it and that the leadpipe is missing... I have to use this horn because it is all my unit has for marching ceremonies.

Rath R4F - The sound of the very best Elkhart Conn 88H, but significantly easier to play. 

Olds O-25 - My backup large bore tenor.  I don't actually NEED a backup, I bought this horn out of sentimental value because it the first horn I played after I upgraded from my student horn when I was in junior high.  Also similar to an Elkhart 88H, but with a bit of its own character.  With its .554 bore, you can pop in a Bach 1.5G and it can play like a pseudo-bass.

Kanstul 1670 (For sale!) - I'm a tenor player primarily, but used to get a LOT of play time doubling on bass.  Easiest playing bass I've ever played.

I can tell you what I play but you may very likely prefer something else.  We are all different and the horn that works best for one may not for another.

Alto: Conn 36H (with trigger)
Small tenor: either a Martin Imperial or a Holton Stratodyne.  Sometimes take out a 1925 Olds TIS.
Medium tenor: Bach 36CG (lightweight slide).  Mostly with the F-attachment in.
Symphonic tenor: Yamaha 682 with Shires 1G bell.  The bell was a long, sad story.
Bass: King 7B from 1981.

I also used to have a King 4B-F from the mid 1970s that I loved for concert band.

If you are fishing for recommendations, I can only suggest avoiding a lot of those Chinese horns with European sounding names.  There are lots of great trombones out there and you should buy something that you like and can afford.  Whatever you buy you will adapt to.  That's what happened to me when I bought my Yamaha 682G.

Conn 100H - my main axe: warm, full sound; a delight to play
King3BF-SP - brighter sound, trigger adds versatility, 10/10 slide
Olds - Special and Ambassador (my first horn) - good sound, good slotting
Bernd Vollers Custom Convertible - a real work of art, still getting used to it

Well right now I'm playing (testing) a Bach 50 with Hagmanns. The Hagmanns are from a Besson 943, so technically it's a Bachon or Bech.

Quote from: SethMatrix on May 15, 2015, 10:49AMWell right now I'm playing (testing) a Bach 50 with Hagmanns. The Hagmanns are from a Besson 943, so technically it's a Bachon or Bech.

As long as it's not a Blech...

Quote from: jmtheob on May 15, 2015, 10:57AMAs long as it's not a Blech...
Or it could be a Bacon

^^^ like the Bacon!

I have been acquiring Bach stuff for some time.  The reason, cheap and it is so easy to customize Bachs.  I cant afford new boutique horns so I build my own Bachs.

All makers vary horn to horn.  Some of the high end ones vary less, but no horn centric specifics remarks warrant a generalization.  From my personal collection, my silver plated Bach 12 trombone is about as dark as an average 36.  This isn't typical of Bach 12 trombones, Just as Harrison Reeds terrible 42B is not exactly typical of all 42Bs.

Btw
I have a Finke bass Sackbutt and a Boosey G-D bass trombone that don't fit in the poll.  Oh and a Weril TIS alto. The Shires F bass gets included but rarely used

Benn

Alto: JP Rath 236
Small Tenor: Bach LT8G, Bach 9, Bach LT16M, King 2B, King 2B SS
Bigger: Edwards .525/.547

I like small bores a lot, and my Bach 8 and 9 are just fantastic horns.

I play many horns, many brands.
I like ALL but if I choose on frequency of use right now then the list might look like this...

Top small bore trombone brands:
King
Kanstul
Yamaha
Conn
Bach

Big tenors played in this order:
Schilke
Kanstul
Conn
Bach
Edwards

Basses in this order:
Kanstul
Benge
Holton
Conn
Bach

/Tom

Conn 60h and 70h. Should like to try one of the new ones. But for my sound concept and wallet   I believe I never will buy anything more in my life.

Leif

All that my bass is missing is bolts in its neck... A Bach/Holton/Conn/Kanstul/M&K Frankenbass. I also play a few modified/Frankensteined Olds' often. I am getting away with only having two daily-driver horns and I am very happy with them, though recently swapping around bells and slides has led me to thinking about more modifications. I will try my hardest not to follow through 

Thinking about it I have not played a stock trombone in quite a while... I do not count modular models, of course.

I have only play one trombone that was stock that I did not want to change one thing. The first iteration of the Holton TR-180. With the 9.5" bell and thumb-operated D valve. I was okay with the trigger system. It played so fantastically.

EDIT:

The whys

I bought my Frankenbass from a forum member because I needed a bass and one that was different from what I had. I got what I asked for, but I still slowly changed things. It is my favorite bass trombone I have ever played because it fits perfectly into what I need it to do. Not tubby, but warm, bright and sonorous like I would want a bass trombone to be. I would do more if I had the money to put into the work I have in mind, but like I said I will hold off.

I play my BAC/Olds Super-Duper because I have always liked Olds trombones and the Supers I have found always seemed to get prettier and better playing. When I found this one I decided it would be what I always play for lead ( unless I make the mistake of buying another small bore that works so well ), then I wanted do to something unique so I designed some changed and sent it off and it came back with the ability to take more power and hit harder. The sound is super ( pun intended ) crisp and clear, but the color is not boring at all.

As for the others I play them only when I cannot get what i want from the above two, but that is rare.

A bunch of  Conns
MJL

King 3B-F, 70s vintage.  My small bore horn of choice.
King 4B-F, 70s vintage.  Picked it up at the factory at the designer's office.  This horn will go to me to the grave.
Holton TR-180, also 70s vintage.  Pawn shop find, kicks butt while sounding rich and sweet.

Must say I've never played any of the boutique horns.

Shires/Bach bass, with what I like to think is the best parts of both. It works for now!

Conn 6H, because it's hard to go wrong with it. I have used it for lead, rock, rap, concert band, pit shows, you name it. I constantly think about selling it (for more trombone money) but it would be a huge mistake.

I gave Yamaha shout out because I have two Yamaha valved instruments that are pretty great.

Yamaha 882OR - Responsive, Reliable
Conn 4H - Smooth, Not the sound for me though.
Olds Recording R20 - Super Responsive, Nice Sound.

Rath R9 - My main instrument. Really wonderful and responsive instrument.

Accent TB 959 DB - Not often seen, but I enjoy this aside from the rotor. But I never like standard rotors. Good thing I don't need it often on tenor!

King 3B (Late 50s)

Tenor: Edwards T396-A
Alto: Larry Minick alto trombone

Yamaha YSL-354: This is my do-anything horn. I use it for most of what I do, being Marching Band and Pep Band.
Elkhart Cavalier: More of a novelty, it doesn't get played often and I don't use it at school.
King 5B: I call it The Beast... I use it on 3rd/Bass part in Jazz, and also as a symphonic band horn.

I prefer my custom King silver sonic 2B for jazz/lead/section (custom made for Kai Windig in '67 with a 3B bell taper.  Using a Jiggs wigham 2B light-weight slide on it.)

My Holton Tr180 for everything bass bone related (Minnick style conversion of triggers, open wrap "D" slide, oversized portals on rotors, and vented rotors)

Conn 88H (1962) for orchestral/legit tenor work

Conn 10J tuba

Sorry - should have included my reasons - simple - these horns give me the sound and performance I require for the work I do.  Free and easy blowing, big fat sounds, and tone color suiting the size of horn.

My most played horn is an Elkhart conn 88h
Second most is a conn 36h alto
Third most is Elkhart conn 8h
Fourth is conn 62h bass
Fifth is elkhart conn 12h coprion bell

So should I have voted five times for conn in the poll?

MJL

small tenor: olds ambassador (pretty bright and fun to play around with)
medium tenor: olds recording (can't go wrong with this baby ) )
large tenor: holton tr160 ( personally love the versitility of this instrument and is much more responsive to me than the bach / conn equivalents)

Both of the trombones I currently own are Kings, as listed in my signature.  I got the 607F for an absolute steal back when I was in high school (I found it on eBay and if I remember right I paid no more than $250 with shipping for it) and for an intermediate horn, it sounds fantastic.  Unfortunately a few years ago the slide got damaged beyond repair, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I may have found a replacement slide from one of the other TTF members (depending on if it's a .525 or not). I picked up the Cleveland 606 to replace the 607.  The lacquer was in rough shape when I got it and it has a few small dings here and there, so I decided to strip the lacquer off of it and see how it looks/sounds.  Not too bad for what I paid for it.

I'm also looking into buying an Eastman 634.  I tried out a Getzen 3047AF and loved it, but didn't love the price tag.  While I'm guessing that the 634's not going to be quite as impressive as the Getzen was, I've heard enough good things about it to think that for $2000 it's worth a shot. 

I play a Chinese knock off copy of a Yamaha YBL-613G.  Mine is branded as "Excel" but it can be found with other names on it too including Bach.  It's the same as a Vincent Bach International TBB 100.  Plays fine for me.  Budget was the main concern but buying used from a reputable tech meant I wasn't worried about it at all.

Ronnie

My current stable of horns is listed in my signature.

Here are the "Why's":
Old Custom - it's a beautiful horn, the slide is amazing, and aside from the too narrow (for me) slide it's a great player.

Conn 6H - great big sound despite its small bore, reminds me very much of the horn that I played throughout high school. wonderful slide. testing out a 48H bell with it right now.

Getzen 3047AFR Custom - just feels comfortable - great balance, projection, tone. the sterling leadpipe really gives the sound an edge despite its rose bell. wonderful slide (but a touch on the heavy side).

Kanstul MS169i - big sound, easy to play FFF. very good slide. I like that I could swap the 2 attachment tuning slides for either Bb/F/G/Eb or Bb/F/Gb/D. I can get much crisper articulations on this horn than my Getzen.

Shires large tenor
Shires bass
Olds small tenor

I'm sure there are any number of horns that I could be happy on (Off the top of my head, I know that I love Rath basses, Courtois big tenors, BAC small tenors, and I know I could be happy with a Yamaha bass) but these were the ones I wound up with (all bought used, at significant discounts).

Main Large-Bore: Yamaha 882O
Main Small-Bore: King 2B
Back-Up Small-Bore/Latin and Salsa Horn: Besson Stratford
"Period"/Scale-Down Tenor: The Elkhart
Extra/Marching/Expendable Horn: Holton 602
Alto: Wessex PE480
Bass: King Duo Gravis

Euph: Boosey Class A

Horns that I play and own:
Besson BE639
Getzen 1062FDR
Horns that I played on (for fun and curiosity or tested):
Benge 290
Conn 88H
King 606
Yamaha Xeno YBL-822G
Getzen 1052FD
Bach 50B3
Conn 62HI

My horns in order of playing:
Miraphone 186 Tuba - Versatile instrument can get a variety of tone qualities and volume levels, blends well with different Ensembles.
Yamaha YBL-612 - was able to pick one up cheap, plays well has a tonal quality I like for Big band work.
Conn 88H Elkhart- has been my go to horn for decades use for most of my non-bass trombone playing, love the sound has a great slide. 
King 3B - This is a Beautiful older horn in great condition.  I don't play this much anymore as I find myself playing more bass trombone these days, and I'm actually thinking of selling it just because I don't play lead, and the lower 3rd or 4th parts, and style and type of playing I do just doesn't require a small bore horn.
I also have a older Elkhart Era Conn 36K Sousaphone that I use for street parades and stand up tuba playing.  Lightweight Sousaphone that I can get a big sound out of.

I have, since this poll was started, started using a (Jupiter) XO Brass 1632RGL-LT instead of my KING horns for jazz and general performance.  This is the finest .500 bore horn I have ever played

I play on three horns:
a Getzen Eterna ii 725 tenor
a Conn 73h bass
a Wessex alto
 

Quote from: ssking2b on May 26, 2015, 05:46AMI prefer my custom King silver sonic 2B for jazz/lead/section (custom made for Kai Windig in '67 with a 3B bell taper.  Using a Jiggs wigham 2B light-weight slide on it.)

My Holton Tr180 for everything bass bone related (Minnick style conversion of triggers, open wrap "D" slide, oversized portals on rotors, and vented rotors)

Conn 88H (1962) for orchestral/legit tenor work

Conn 10J tuba


Please you must share pics of the Kai bell....and how did you come to own it?

Ill try to find somewhere to post pix of the bell.  It doesn't look different than expected, just has different measurements on the bell taper, and no serial numbers.

I got it thru a music store in NYC that was commissioned to sell it.  King, when it was still UMI, confirmed it's identity from records and descriptions kept at the time.

Quote from: ssking2b on Oct 14, 2016, 05:14AMIll try to find somewhere to post pix of the bell.  It doesn't look different than expected, just has different measurements on the bell taper, and no serial numbers.

I got it thru a music store in NYC that was commissioned to sell it.  King, when it was still UMI, confirmed it's identity from records and descriptions kept at the time.

I know Kai had a number of horns including the famous Blue 2B made for him when he worked the playboy club....when was your bell made?

Olds & Williams. My main two at the moment.

King 3B - early 80s model, main axe for gigs (latin, salsa, jazz), warm sound and comfortable
King 2B SS - 1968, lovely sound and more character but haven't got used to this yet
Yamaha 697Z - easy to play and "nice" but King 2B is better sounding (in my opinion)
Conn Artist Symphony - I think this is close to a 88H, a large bore with trigger. Mostly used for practicing and working on basic skills such as air, slurs, Cimeras exercises etc.

Finally I tend to choose Yamaha.

252, 354, 321,,,


hurry

The only horn I use on gigs is my Vincent Bach Stadivarius LT16M. Originally it had a V16 valve section in the same case but I found the swapping around on a gig too difficult and obtained a second Model 16 bell.

My other horns are:

1. A Conn 6H manufactured in 1960 which was the one I used for much of my life. Originally it was short-pitched, à la Stan Kenton trombone section, but I later had this modified to normal pitch.

2. King Silversonic 2B with an extra lightweight slide.

As you can see from the photo, I use the other two horns for practice at home. I find swapping the resistances around whilst practicing helps to firm up my embouchure, which these days needs a lot of looking after.

See my signature

Corporation Bach 12 (Minick did work on it)
Gen II Conn 88h
Custom Bach 50B built by Larry Minick from 3 different Bach 50's. Bell is MV overstock but stamped Elkhart. End crook from a Conn 62H

All with Giddings and Webster MP's

Ed. Kruspe bass bone - great synphonic instrument

Karl Mönnich tenor bone - tricky but very rewarding

Wessex bass bone - good and cheap all-round horn, good for Big Band

B&S alto bone - good enough for me

Yamaha 682G and 356G large and medium bore with quart valve - easy and good quality horns

Plus euohs and tubas ...

 

Mount Vernon Lt36 w/ Edwards #2 leadpipe - Bach 7C
King 2B+ Silver Sonic w/ Mount Vernon 7C
Bach 42BO - w/ Custom Bass Shank Bach 7 (bored out)
Blue PBone with Jettone aluminum 7C
Bach Lt12G  - Mount Vernon  7C
Bach Lt16MG w/ Kanstul H8 leadpipe - Mount Vernon 7C
King 2B with 1953 Nickel Tempo Bell - Mount Vernon 7C
King 2B Valve Trombone - Mount Vernon 7
Weril Alto - Sterling Silver Warren Covington Mouthpiece
Pre WWI King Euphonium
 Conn Bb Tuba (1958)
Conn Eb Tuba (1928)
Holton TR-156 w/ Doug Elloit 98/E or F cup
Artley Alto Flute
Armstrong 103 open hole Flute
Gemienhardt Piccolo
and
Selman Bass Trumpet

In order of what is grabbed,

1. Yamaha 891z
2. King 3b sometimes 4b
3. various Olds
...

Be careful with the results!

Everyone's least most favorite horn might be some oddball ___________!

 

Right now, in order of what leaves the house the most:

- Early '70s 3B - comes with me almost 100% of the time. Hand picked at DJ's.
- Elkhart 72H - at least three times a week. I would prefer to have a second valve but the sound is awesome.
- Carol Brass trumpet - at least twice a week. Works fine for what I need it for, but I need to upgrade.
- Pre-WWI Couesnon flugel - at least once a week. My forever flugel. Bought from DJ, interestingly enough.
- '69 Conn 16E mellophonium - used to see a lot more use in Latin jazz oddly enough...still gets played frequently at home.
- '38 Conn 6D double horn - gets used most weeks. Has a great sound, but needs an overhaul to really play great.
- Selman C trumpet - gets used most weeks. It actually plays well, and better than my B flat. Still, I'd like to get a "real" C at some point.
- old Besson Eb tenor horn - not mine; gets used once a week to play in a British brass band. Does not play well...need to get my own.
- Meinl Weston rotary C bass trumpet - not mine. Have used it for two different performances of the Rite. It has a nice sound but the intonation is not great. As above, I need to get my own.
- Edwards Thayer/rose bell/nickel slide large bore tenor - not mine. I use it to play in a trombone quartet where all the other members (one of which owns the horn) play Edwards.
- Selmer Largo straight large bore - I love this horn, but since I've started playing the Edwards in the quartet it hasn't seen much use apart from home practice. It's addicting to play and has the most lovely, velvety sound. Bought from DJ.
- Holton H179 double horn - not mine. I use it for low horn parts and whenever I want the classic London 8D sound, which it does very well.
- '08 Kanstul 975-2 euph - used almost every day when I was an undergrad, but now that I have the degree it almost never leaves the house sadly. I've played it for a couple recording sessions and that's about it.
- Selman alto trombone - used occasionally in the funk/soul band I play in, of all places. It plays well, and I won't need to replace it for a while (even if I want to).
- Bach CR310 cornet - used a lot more before I got my trumpet. Now it pretty much only sees use in home recording. Plays pretty well, especially with the Wick 4 mouthpiece.
- Getzen 383 frumpet - never leaves the house (understandably), but I use it occasionally for home recording.
- '40 Holton 63 jazz bone - bought recently from Ben Griffin. Needs a slide job before I can take it out, and I also haven't had the type of work that it would work great for in a while.

Bach because of the versatility

Well, half of this is in my signature, but I'll go for it anyways:

Boosey and Hawkes Sovereign Euph (Globe Stamp)-play it in the school wind ensemble
Bach Strad 50B3 Bass-play it in the youth symphony
Olds P-16 Custom Tenor-only played it once in a group, mostly just for practice/fun (hopefully will play some more with it soon)
Paul Mauriat Alto Sax-play it in the school big band, gets a real hip sound, awesome middle/low range
Yamaha Soprano Sax-play it in the school big band when required, and in a few sax choir pieces I arranged...other than that, just for practice/fun
Blue pBone-what I practiced on before I had a "real" trombone, currently collecting dust, but served its purpose

I also spent extended periods of time on a few horns I didn't own, like a Selmer Bb clarinet (for a single jazz piece-hated playing it), a Conn 88H (for a musical), and King marching instruments (baritone for 3 years, euph for 1).